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mtengaio
Feb 2, 2011, 6:35 PM
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I'm in the process of writing a proposal for our local gym along the lines of routesetting guidelines and such as it has become a free-for-all at the gym and needs to be addressed. Several patrons have expressed their unhappiness with the inconsistency of ratings and the horde of tape that appears seemingly overnight on the walls, causing confusion to paying customers.
If there are any routesetters on here that have useful insight they are willing to share, I'd appreciate it. I have a good idea on what to propose but would like to hear from others…especially those who set routes in bigger gyms (our gym is quite small).
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lena_chita
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Feb 2, 2011, 6:53 PM
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Are those your two main concerns-- the inconsistency in ratings, and loads of confusing tape?
Both seem rather minor, but you could have develop a routine where at least 3 setters have to climb the new route and agree on the grading.
And if tape is confusing, you can have routes set with only one kind of color holds, so then there is no need to tape... Though I don't necessarily see this as a better solution, in our gym the toprope routes are set in such a way that there is no need to tape, but bouldering cave is taped. Part of the reason is that people who climb with bad footwork end up scraping the tape off the wall in some spots, and it is time-consuming to keep track of it and replace it on toprope walls, while on bouldering wall the problems are shorter and easier to remember/replace the tape, if the tape falls off.
There really aren't many rules in our gym, as far as route-setting goes. The main ones are to use the proper bolts with appropriate holds, and to set routes in such a way that every wall/rope will have at least one of an easy route, an intermediate route, and a hard route, and all of them together make an easy "rainbow" path up the wall that would be appropriate/doable for first-timers.
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wwalt822
Feb 2, 2011, 9:52 PM
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Both of these can be fixed by simple guidlines. No more than X number of routes per rope (3-4 at my gym) and my gym has a "we set it, you grade it" policy. It produces pretty consistent results IMO. The setter puts a range of 4 grades and the one with the most tick marks wins after a week or so wins. The date is printed on each route and its kept of for a certain amount of time, 1-2 months.
(This post was edited by wwalt822 on Feb 2, 2011, 9:56 PM)
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ianmeister89
Feb 2, 2011, 10:00 PM
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The gym I set at has a couple guidelines:
1 We tape all holds down in the same direction, down and to the right at a 45º angle. sometimes we make exceptions when visibility can be an issue, i.e. with large volumes, or around corners/ on arêtes.
2. Until recently we graded problems through the general consensus of the setters, but we changed to a system that allows gym members to contribute directly to the grading of a problem. On our tags for problems, we have a range of grades (V1-V2-V3), with a space where climbers can check which grade they think it is.
-Ian
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climb4free
Feb 3, 2011, 12:21 AM
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I like the you grade it policy. However, unless those rating it actually climb outdoors regularly, the gym as a whole seems as if it would develop its own standards. If after the concensus is set, other "gym only" climbers will get a feel for a "V2" then they will chime in on the next week's problems. Possibly further inflating the gym rating.
As strictly a climber, and setter on my home-wall, I would prefer that the consensus comes from the setter and his/her peers. I know that most people are their own toughest critic.
(This post was edited by climb4free on Feb 3, 2011, 12:22 AM)
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rock_fencer
Feb 3, 2011, 1:18 AM
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At will setting only works well with a small gym and very low numbers of climbers. It will always lead to over cluttering however. Much like most gyms have a grade one has to climb before taking a lead test, this should hold for setting as well. Also gym rats aren't allowed to set ever!!
Tape should never be more than 3 inches long. Never put like colored tapes next to each other. Don't overcrowd a certain area, and always maintain a rotation.
Grading should err on the side of sand bagging, and in general consensus of a few people who actually climb would be nice.
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surfer9joe
Feb 3, 2011, 2:35 AM
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No more than 1-2 pieces of tape per hold
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guangzhou
Feb 3, 2011, 2:54 AM
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climb4free wrote: I like the you grade it policy. However, unless those rating it actually climb outdoors regularly, the gym as a whole seems as if it would develop its own standards. If after the concensus is set, other "gym only" climbers will get a feel for a "V2" then they will chime in on the next week's problems. Possibly further inflating the gym rating.
I don't see a problem with the gym ratings being consistent for the gym but not for other areas. Rating are subjective by nature and many would say they are not consistent from one climbing area tot he next.
I would think consistent within the gym is a good start.
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treemonkey
Feb 3, 2011, 4:25 AM
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You should ask this over at Routesetter.com
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spikeddem
Feb 3, 2011, 2:42 PM
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rock_fencer wrote: Also gym rats aren't allowed to set ever!!
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camhead
Feb 3, 2011, 3:59 PM
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I only set in a bouldering gym, but I like to think that we are a pretty quality establishment, so here are a few guidelines; none are concrete rules, but still good to keep in mind.
-Numerous crappy feet are better than one good foot. If you set low feet, consider setting duplicates of them about 15 inches higher for short climbers. Use moves that require cutting feet VERY sparingly. Dynamic movement is good, but true dynos get old really quickly.
-Many small holds are intended as specifically right or left-handed. You don't always have to use them as such, but if you ever set a route in which the hold feels "backwards," or worse really puts pressure on a weaker finger, consider changing it.
-Speaking of not tweaking fingers, it should be VERY rare that you set a problem requiring closed-hand crimps. Open-handed edges and slopers are the way to build strength in the gym, closed-handed crimps are the way to get injured.
-Err on the side of just slightly "too big" rather than "too small" with underclings.
-Get creative. Hard moves off of easy holds are usually more interesting than easy moves off of hard holds.
-Don't set too many "one-move wonders," or routes in which the hardest move is right off the ground.
-Pay attention to what your height is. A common complaint I often hear from my 5'2" wife and a 5' climbing partner is that usually the reachiest route setters are 5'6" males, since they assume that they will be the shortest person to ever climb their route.
-Finally, grading is ultra subjective. On boulder problems, I prefer not to grade them at all, since the climber can easily see what he or she is in for without a grade. With routes, consider just having something a 1-5 system, or a "easy, medium, hard" system. Shitshows happen outside when indoor climbers export their gym's idea of the YDS to the crag.
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iknowfear
Feb 3, 2011, 4:59 PM
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camhead wrote: I only set in a bouldering gym, but I like to think that we are a pretty quality establishment, so here are a few guidelines; none are concrete rules, but still good to keep in mind. -Numerous crappy feet are better than one good foot. If you set low feet, consider setting duplicates of them about 15 inches higher for short climbers. Use moves that require cutting feet VERY sparingly. Dynamic movement is good, but true dynos get old really quickly. -Many small holds are intended as specifically right or left-handed. You don't always have to use them as such, but if you ever set a route in which the hold feels "backwards," or worse really puts pressure on a weaker finger, consider changing it. -Speaking of not tweaking fingers, it should be VERY rare that you set a problem requiring closed-hand crimps. Open-handed edges and slopers are the way to build strength in the gym, closed-handed crimps are the way to get injured. -Err on the side of just slightly "too big" rather than "too small" with underclings. -Get creative. Hard moves off of easy holds are usually more interesting than easy moves off of hard holds. -Don't set too many "one-move wonders," or routes in which the hardest move is right off the ground. -Pay attention to what your height is. A common complaint I often hear from my 5'2" wife and a 5' climbing partner is that usually the reachiest route setters are 5'6" males, since they assume that they will be the shortest person to ever climb their route. -Finally, grading is ultra subjective. On boulder problems, I prefer not to grade them at all, since the climber can easily see what he or she is in for without a grade. With routes, consider just having something a 1-5 system, or a "easy, medium, hard" system. Shitshows happen outside when indoor climbers export their gym's idea of the YDS to the crag.
Try to avoid to set hard moves (for the grade) before the second clip. Broken bones really suck!
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rock_fencer
Feb 3, 2011, 5:03 PM
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spikeddem wrote: rock_fencer wrote: Also gym rats aren't allowed to set ever!! What's your reasoning for this?
I should have put that in perspective of the qualification that people climb a certain grade before they start setting. The reasoning being that gym rats, for the most part, when they start off haven't a clue about quality movement or setting well. Nothing against gym rats otherwise.
just my 2 cents, having managed a university gym and set/worked/and taught at a few others.
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robx
Feb 4, 2011, 5:53 AM
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My gym sets approximate grades, then has a grade book at the front of the gym to give feedback to not just the grade, but also the quality of the route.
Also I agree with no hard moves until second clip. It's just too damn dangerous.
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USnavy
Feb 4, 2011, 11:31 AM
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rock_fencer wrote: Also gym rats aren't allowed to set ever!!
(This post was edited by USnavy on Feb 4, 2011, 11:31 AM)
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ianmeister89
Feb 5, 2011, 3:53 PM
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Well there definitely is a great conflict of interest, there.
-Ian
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