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asellers98
Jun 18, 2009, 6:17 AM
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How does one go about finding the niche for your audience? Should I stick with setting easier routes for the beginners and get a good following? Or is it better to aim for the 5.9 - up range, who have the skills learned, and would enjoy my more technical routes better?
Is it better to lower the technical aspect so they can have a better success rate, or keep the technical routes, but add an easier version for the newer climbers?
Being new to setting routes, I find that if I set a route to teach good technique in the 5.6 - 5.9 range, obviously a lot of the newer climbers are going to be trying these routes and failing.
The technical parts of my climbs usually include:
1. Shifting weight - shoulder over opposite foot, which gets better foot friction.
2. Leaning far to one side so a high step is really easier.
3. Back stepping for balance in corners.
4. Reachy holds to teach straight arm climbing and to trust their foot balance.
5. Matched feet, or foot swaps to feel more in control on the wall.
6. Required shoulder to the wall moves, thus teaching how good a hold can feel if it is used in the right angle.
7. But most of all, my routes require you to think! I strive at making them puzzles to solve. The set way to climb it is easy, if you find your body positions, but if you try the straight X positioning, it will feel very difficult compared to the grade.
My first thought is to design a 5.8 route, then match the route moves with an easier 5.6 route with additional holds. Two routes basically the same, so if someone gets frustrated, they can try the easier way.
But what I really want to do is really teach them to climb without giving them the answers. Should I write "technical" on my route start so they understand before they try to muscle through it? What about writing move names on the holds requiring them?
I hear people enjoying the routes, but also see less experienced climbers using many off route holds to make them, which is pretty standard anywhere. Any thoughts or or suggestions?
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blueshrimp
Jun 18, 2009, 11:53 AM
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When a poet writes a poem, his job is to make it beautiful.
What the reader gets from the poem and how he interprets it or what significance the poem then has on the reader's life (or not) is in the control of the reader.
Once the poem has been written, the poet relinquishes control. That is what makes art beautiful, because it changes shape and meaning according to those who appreciate it.
Forcing a reader to "read" into a poem exactly what the poet wanted makes the poem no longer a poem, but an instruction manual. The reader will not find in it the same joy as he would in a poem. He might learn to follow directions, though.
Be a poet, or be an instruction manual writer. You can't be both.
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Toast_in_the_Machine
Jun 18, 2009, 1:37 PM
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I'll go blueshrimp one better - be a poet. What is "reachy" for blueshrimp is not for me. It is OK to build in a move you find interesting, but chances are some people will find a different way to solve it. And that is good. Overdesigning a route or choosing a specific type of climbing is boring (i.e. "technical"). If you want people to learn how to solve a problem in a specific way, set a bouldering problem and then give it an obvious name (i.e."get a foot up" or "shouler meet wall, wall meet shoulder")
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mounter
Jun 18, 2009, 2:07 PM
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blueshrimp wrote: When a poet writes a poem, his job is to make it beautiful. What the reader gets from the poem and how he interprets it or what significance the poem then has on the reader's life (or not) is in the control of the reader. Once the poem has been written, the poet relinquishes control. That is what makes art beautiful, because it changes shape and meaning according to those who appreciate it. Forcing a reader to "read" into a poem exactly what the poet wanted makes the poem no longer a poem, but an instruction manual. The reader will not find in it the same joy as he would in a poem. He might learn to follow directions, though. Be a poet, or be an instruction manual writer. You can't be both.
That's pretty deep considering we're talking about route setting. That said, I pretty much agree with blueshrimp's general concept. However, having worked at a gym (years ago...the older I am the better I was fits here...ha!) I'm sensitive to the concerns and questions you have. My approach when I set routes was to include as much variety as possible. This would allow for advanced and beginners to have fun and be challenged. Bouldering routes were also a key factor because I could fit a shit load of them in around roped climbs...again, variety is the spice of life. I think if you keep the "poet spirit" that blueshrimp speaks of, but temper that artist approach with some common, and business, sense, you'll have the best of all worlds.
By the way, just a disclaimer, I don't know shit about anything...so take my words with a grain of salt...good luck.
(This post was edited by mounter on Jun 18, 2009, 2:10 PM)
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shoo
Jun 18, 2009, 2:23 PM
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You should set whatever the gym needs. As a setter, your responsibility is to the customers that will be climbing your routes. You don't need some kind of cult following, so don't try to force it.
Develop your style of setting, and constantly seek to experiment with new styles.
Most importantly, don't think about it too much.
As for writing "technical" or the beta for moves, HELL NO! The only thing you will be teaching anyone with crap like that is to use other people's beta as a crutch. They won't develop independence as a climber and certainly won't develop route-reading skills. Failure is a fantastic teacher. Let people fail, and they will learn.
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mturner
Jun 18, 2009, 2:37 PM
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mounter wrote: My approach when I set routes was to include as much variety as possible...variety is the spice of life.
BINGO!!
shoo wrote: Most importantly, don't think about it too much.
This to me is horrible advice. Route setting is a complex art and a good route setter allows anticipates how a variety of climbers will complete a route. Now, if you're talking about not thinking too much about what people think about your routes then I can see some value in that statement because you're almost never going to please everybody.
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shoo
Jun 18, 2009, 3:21 PM
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mturner wrote: mounter wrote: My approach when I set routes was to include as much variety as possible...variety is the spice of life. BINGO!! shoo wrote: Most importantly, don't think about it too much. This to me is horrible advice. Route setting is a complex art and a good route setter allows anticipates how a variety of climbers will complete a route. Now, if you're talking about not thinking too much about what people think about your routes then I can see some value in that statement because you're almost never going to please everybody.
I think you made my point quite nicely. Route setting is an art, not a science. If you try to get it down to a science, you will set a lot of uninteresting crap.
You can also way overthink a route such that you get tunnel vision and can't imagine other possibilities. One example setting a difficult sequence without realizing that there is far more efficient and less interesting way to climb that section by doing something else.
You can also get self-conscious and spend too much time thinking about what other people think of your work, as mturner mentioned.
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asellers98
Jun 18, 2009, 3:41 PM
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Yeah, I pretty much agree. When I go and set routes, I do so with making something fun and interesting to me. What would be challenging, feel like I am outdoors, and really make me think.
I don't care about a cult following. I enjoy doing it for free, making the place a better place to climb. I volunteered because I would much rather put my heart into something and help make it better, then let it just be ok...
I will apply everyone's advice.
Thanks for everyone's responses. 
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milesenoell
Aug 16, 2009, 4:25 AM
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Well, let me throw this out coming from the other direction; I only set problems for myself (woody, and no friends here who climb) and have really found that many of the most interesting moves are ones that aren't obvious before trying the problem. To get people to engage with your problems as you intended may not be the most productive goal. Watching how people respond to your sequences, where they stray, where they get stuck, and how they find a way through, may show you how to surprise people and get them to find new solutions (including ones that you weren't considering).
Echoing another post, let people fail that they might learn. But, on the other hand, if you have some cool moves that you are really hoping to get people to learn, make sure that at least a few folks know the sequence (or do the problem occasionally yourself, as a model) so that the "correct" solution is out there for people to see and decide if they want to attempt.
(I used to climb at a gym where a guy put up some problems that required a toe hooking a corner. Nobody knew and assumed that the corner was off since it wasn't clear. The problems got basically no traffic until finally he came in and did a couple of them. Then they got really popular, even though they were still too hard for most folks, because the challenge was there for them to accept.)
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healyje
Aug 16, 2009, 5:40 AM
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Every significant wall segment should have a jug line up it, especially the steepest wall segments in the gym. There is no reason on earth why you shouldn't be able to just get in yardage and laps on any wall segment, and again, especially the steepest ones.
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