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MC22rocks
Feb 22, 2012, 11:11 PM
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Hey guys,
I'm curious to hear what more people think about the gym's wall height.
I'm looking at a location that is near two post secondary schools (30,000 students living around area). This location however would only be able to have 22 ft walls.
Do you think I would lose more business having a location further away from the schools, or by having a smaller wall height.
Lets assume route setting, A/C, staff, programs, bouldering walls will all be kick ass.
I'd obviously rather have taller walls, but the next closest building allowed to have walls taller than that is 15 minutes away in industrial area.
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cracklover
Feb 22, 2012, 11:26 PM
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Bigger is not always better, since it always means tradeoffs. But 22 feet is simply too short, particularly after you lose a foot or so to padding.
And 15 minutes is not that far to go for a decent gym.
Just my $0.02
GO
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Traches
Feb 23, 2012, 12:38 AM
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If you went with the 22 foot location, you should probably make it exclusively bouldering and you probably shouldn't have top-outs. Is it within walking distance of those schools? I could see you making a killing if that's the case.
That said, cracklover's right... 22 feet is SHORT and 15 minutes is not very far.
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rschap
Feb 23, 2012, 5:21 AM
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I have found that most college students only boulder at my gym. We even do a $5 Friday that includes harness and they still boulder only. So a bouldering only gym would probably be fine as long as you were only looking to draw from the college crowd or real climbers. I have also found that most college students are broke and real climbers are not always high in numbers so neither are my best source of income. My best source of income comes from beginners and most of them want to climb on ropes. I agree 22 ft is short, our walls down the center of the building are 28ft but because of the pitch of the roof our shortest roped wall is 18 ½ ft and while it’s short it’s not that bad. Having a topout wall would also be fine; if you top out at 12ft with a foot of padding you’d still have 9ft to the ceiling. You could even go to 14ft topout and be fine and I wouldn’t go much higher anyways.
Personally I wouldn’t do it though. I think the best height for gym walls is between 30 and 35ft. I think as time goes on you’ll regret it and wish you had taller walls. I also don’t think the college will give as much business as you think, just my experience. That being said what does your budget tell you?
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guangzhou
Feb 23, 2012, 7:14 AM
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I have to agree with the above post, less than 30 feet won't be great. Going all bouldering is one option, but like the post above me, the majority of my gym's income is from beginners who want height.
On advantage of bouldering only is you won't need to add a bunch of ropes and harnesses to opening to your opening budget. (Relatively small in the big pictures.
Higher gyms also mean a lot more handhold. 1 meter more doesn't seem like a lot, until you think that it's one meter all around. two or three handhold more per route when you have over 100 routes adds up quickly.
Eman
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MC22rocks
Feb 23, 2012, 2:10 PM
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Okay thanks everyone for the input, I was really iffy about doing the gym there, but my partners thought it could work out. Your input will be used to sway them away from this location.
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sycamore
Feb 23, 2012, 4:56 PM
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The places I've been that had unused topropes also had the lowest wall heights. You need to give the customer the incentive to pay more to toprope/lead by providing a sufficiently different experience than bouldering. 22' is really low.
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guangzhou
Feb 24, 2012, 1:17 AM
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sycamore wrote: The places I've been that had unused topropes also had the lowest wall heights. You need to give the customer the incentive to pay more to toprope/lead by providing a sufficiently different experience than bouldering. 22' is really low.
You could charge the same for both bouldering and climbing, that could spread the traffic out.
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pdx_climber
Feb 24, 2012, 6:55 PM
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Wait, what?
What kind of gym charges separately for bouldering versus roped climbing? Aside from the gear rental fees, of course.
22ft. minus 2-3 ft. at the top for lights & ducts, minus a foot or so for padding at the bottom leaves you with 17 or 18 ft. That's pretty good for a bouldering-only gym, but not nearly enough for roped climbing.
(This post was edited by pdx_climber on Feb 24, 2012, 6:56 PM)
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gmggg
Feb 24, 2012, 8:20 PM
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pdx_climber wrote: Wait, what? What kind of gym charges separately for bouldering versus roped climbing? Aside from the gear rental fees, of course.
Most of them.
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redlude97
Feb 24, 2012, 8:25 PM
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gmggg wrote: pdx_climber wrote: Wait, what? What kind of gym charges separately for bouldering versus roped climbing? Aside from the gear rental fees, of course. Most of them.
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gmggg
Feb 24, 2012, 8:26 PM
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redlude97 wrote: gmggg wrote: pdx_climber wrote: Wait, what? What kind of gym charges separately for bouldering versus roped climbing? Aside from the gear rental fees, of course. Most of them. Really?
Yep, in my experience.
You could make some phone calls if you want to check.
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pdx_climber
Feb 24, 2012, 8:32 PM
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That's news to me.
I have been climbing both competitively and recreationally in gyms on the West coast (and in CO) since the mid-90s and I have never been to a gym that charged separately.
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kennoyce
Feb 24, 2012, 8:49 PM
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pdx_climber wrote: That's news to me. I have been climbing both competitively and recreationally in gyms on the West coast (and in CO) since the mid-90s and I have never been to a gym that charged separately.
I'll echo that, I've climbed in gyms all over the west coast and never even heard of one that charges seperately.
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gmggg
Feb 24, 2012, 10:33 PM
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Well, I've traveled around to a bunch of gyms and seen it in quite a few places. None in CO that come to mind
Perchance "most" was too strong a word as I haven't done any actual research on the subject.
Another interesting pass option I've seen are the "belay" or "belay only" passes. Anyone see a justification for charging belayers for anything other than an initial class/test?
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shockabuku
Feb 24, 2012, 11:03 PM
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gmggg wrote: Well, I've traveled around to a bunch of gyms and seen it in quite a few places. None in CO that come to mind Perchance "most" was too strong a word as I haven't done any actual research on the subject. Another interesting pass option I've seen are the "belay" or "belay only" passes. Anyone see a justification for charging belayers for anything other than an initial class/test?
Money. Money is a pretty popular justification for pretty much everything.
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Greggle
Feb 25, 2012, 12:02 AM
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pdx_climber wrote: Wait, what? What kind of gym charges separately for bouldering versus roped climbing? Aside from the gear rental fees, of course.
One of the three gyms I go to charges different rates for the two activities. The other two gyms charge the same.
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dagibbs
Feb 27, 2012, 2:11 AM
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pdx_climber wrote: Wait, what? What kind of gym charges separately for bouldering versus roped climbing? Aside from the gear rental fees, of course.
I don't know about seperately -- but what I've often seen is one price for climbing (including bouldering) and a lower price for bouldering only.
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acorneau
Feb 27, 2012, 2:22 AM
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dagibbs wrote: I don't know about seperately -- but what I've often seen is one price for climbing (including bouldering) and a lower price for bouldering only.
Seems to be the standard practice around here as well.
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gmggg
Feb 27, 2012, 4:40 PM
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dagibbs wrote: pdx_climber wrote: Wait, what? What kind of gym charges separately for bouldering versus roped climbing? Aside from the gear rental fees, of course. I don't know about seperately -- but what I've often seen is one price for climbing (including bouldering) and a lower price for bouldering only.
Ah, perhaps I misunderstood his question. I interpreted him to be taking exception to the scenario you described. I have never seen anyone charging for roped climbing and not including bouldering.
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rschap
Feb 29, 2012, 5:04 AM
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gmggg wrote: dagibbs wrote: pdx_climber wrote: Wait, what? What kind of gym charges separately for bouldering versus roped climbing? Aside from the gear rental fees, of course. I don't know about seperately -- but what I've often seen is one price for climbing (including bouldering) and a lower price for bouldering only. Ah, perhaps I misunderstood his question. I interpreted him to be taking exception to the scenario you described. I have never seen anyone charging for roped climbing and not including bouldering.
Both the gym I used to work at in California and the gym I own in Colorado do that. The way I look at is, why should the person bouldering only pay for the wear and tear on the ropes plus the extra setting. it takes twice as much work to set a roped route as opposed to a boulder problem. I see it as cutting them a break for using less.
Edit to add:We call them "All Access" and "Boulder only" passes.
(This post was edited by rschap on Feb 29, 2012, 5:06 AM)
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gmggg
Feb 29, 2012, 8:16 PM
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rschap wrote: gmggg wrote: dagibbs wrote: pdx_climber wrote: Wait, what? What kind of gym charges separately for bouldering versus roped climbing? Aside from the gear rental fees, of course. I don't know about seperately -- but what I've often seen is one price for climbing (including bouldering) and a lower price for bouldering only. Ah, perhaps I misunderstood his question. I interpreted him to be taking exception to the scenario you described. I have never seen anyone charging for roped climbing and not including bouldering. Both the gym I used to work at in California and the gym I own in Colorado do that. The way I look at is, why should the person bouldering only pay for the wear and tear on the ropes plus the extra setting. it takes twice as much work to set a roped route as opposed to a boulder problem. I see it as cutting them a break for using less. Edit to add:We call them "All Access" and "Boulder only" passes.
There you go, a gym in CO that does it.
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grottoco
Mar 1, 2012, 9:42 PM
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A few months ago there was an official announcement made about a new gym opening up in London, ON, in partnership with the Guelph Grotto. For those who are interested in an update, we are excited to announce that we have secured a location close to the intersection of Highbury and Oxford! Can't beat that location!
We are in discussion with the property owners and should begin construction on the new facility within the next month or so. We can't wait to tell you more about our exciting plans.
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