I have an interesting question for all you sport climbers out there. Do you consider it bad practice if there isn't a very good handhold near a bolt, and it's really hard to hang on for the amount of time it takes to clip in the draw, then clip in the rope, so instead you clip in the draw, then hold onto the quickdraw with one hand while you clip in the rope, then keep climbing as usual? I'm not saying I do this, it's just a hypothetical question. I saw a pair doing this the other day while climbing and was wondering if it was normal to do that or not

What?

I know, it seemed kinda weird, but then again i was like "well i've only climbed with a couple people, maybe others actually do this"

No. The "what" referred to your poor use of the english language to try to convey an idea. I had to read this several times to figure out what the hell you are trying to say.

Sometimes you do whatever you have to do to get the route put up and then work the moves. I'd venture that most sport climbers are ok with yarding on draws in order to figure out a route. Once you have it figured out...pull the rope and get the red point.

Ah. I thought it was ok, but there, is that better?

I thought it was cheating. But i didn't want to say anything to the group in case i was wrong.

Pulling on draws isn't what the OP is talking about. He's talking about a style of hanging draws while climbing. Clipping the rope first, and then the hanger.

Well, it's hard to tell what the hell he's talking about...but I read it as grabbing a draw in order to make a difficult clip, and not as clipping the rope first and then the hanger. But, it's hard to tell when the original post is so poorly worded.

Your question is addressed on the first page of threads in the Sport Climbing forum. It's only 20 theads below yours in the listing.

http://www.rockclimbing.com/...d;page=unread#unread

Well, it's hard to tell what the hell he's talking about...but I read it as grabbing a draw in order to make a difficult clip, and not as clipping the rope first and then the hanger. But, it's hard to tell when the original post is so poorly worded.

Not quite bud, sorry.

You see the thing is, my link answers the question you asked. It's not the question you meant to ask, but it's what you asked. Don't be upset when others misinterpret your poorly written questions.

Well you're the only one who completely misinterpreted it though. Yeah, it might have been hard to understand but everyone else seemed to get it but you

Well shit. I'm trying here. But you are right, I'm referring to grabbing the draw while making a difficult clip, not clipping the rope first

Only mildly, but certainly not sufficiently, as evidenced by the fact that people are still confused.

To everyone else, the OP is referring to pulling on the draw while clipping the rope. This is generally accepted as cheating.

Do you consider it bad practice if there isn't a very good handhold near a bolt, and it's really hard to hang on for the amount of time it takes to clip in the draw, and then clip in the rope. So instead, you clip in the draw, then hold onto the quickdraw with one hand while you clip in the rope, and then keep climbing as usual.

At that point, its called "aid climbing" instead of "free climbing", but, beats takin' a digger and gettin' hurt.

When I do it, I'm usually pumped enough I ask my partner for a "take", then rest, then continue as usual. Then, I give myself full credit for the A0 ascent.

Yes, it is cheating. Yes, it is "bad" practice (and potentially dangerous). Yes, a lot of (most?) sport climbers have done this at some point.
I have only done it a few times myself and wouldn't encourage anyone to get in the habit, but sometimes it seems to be the lesser of two evils.
If you fall, you can't claim the redpoint either...

They even have the term "Nullbier" here for the beer you have to buy for grabbing the draw.

"Just be honest with yourself and others about your ascent. Now, if you are doing this out of unjustified fear, then I'd suggest that this is habit that needs to be broken. "

This is sound advice.

Boy this site really is staffed with clueless children. Of course in the sport climbing community they make up new names, rules, and standards for terms and things that have existed for decades.

What you are referring to is called French Free or (A0) on the scale. Basically it's when you start grabbing draws, cams, stoppers or whatever to get through a tough section you can't do while free climbing.

It's not cheating, it's what YOU had to do to get up the route. Now, if you tell people around the camp fire that you flashed or on sighted a route without disclosing the fact that you had to yard on gear, it's not cheating, it's called LYING!

The rest is all contrived sport climber bullshit...

Dude, chill out 'bout sport climbing. I can't imagine what had to have happened in your life that you HATE on sport climbing so much.

Was that thing with you and your dad and that goat and the hemorrhoids and the massive vibrating cock perpetrated by Wolfgang Gullich or something?

Sheesh. People climb in different styles than you- if it pisses you off so much take up a sport that DOES have a governing body with tons of rules so you'll have somebody to go whine to every time does something "not right". Baseball comes to mind...

It's not cheating, it's what YOU had to do to get up the route. Now, if you tell people around the camp fire that you flashed or on sighted a route without disclosing the fact that you had to yard on gear, it's not cheating, it's called LYING!