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devkrev
Mar 15, 2009, 10:15 PM
Post #26 of 55
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kane_schutzman wrote: 1. That route looks like garbage with a capital G, and a pronounced B, and GGGGGGG, and the end. 2. I shoot the next person I see jamming a lieback.
What about the next person tick marking gear placements on a top rope?
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Johnny_Fang
Mar 15, 2009, 10:31 PM
Post #27 of 55
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kane_schutzman wrote: 1. That route looks like garbage with a capital G, and a pronounced B, and GGGGGGG, and the end. 2. I shoot the next person I see jamming a lieback.
don't feed the trolls, folks. i do like your sig line, kane.
hey, where is that climb? i've spent a decent amount time at squamish but i can't identify it. it looks fun.
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justroberto
Mar 16, 2009, 5:23 AM
Post #28 of 55
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devkrev wrote: kane_schutzman wrote: My style is to be able to climb another day. I'm not going to compromise my fucking good health just to do a shitty lieback route in good style. OHH god don't chalk up the rock. R U fucking serious?  Then why lead the climb at all? dev
Well, what else is he going to do with the 53 cams he bought before he knew how to use them?
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rschap
Mar 16, 2009, 5:56 AM
Post #29 of 55
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I’m going to have to agree with Angry, especially after seeing the picture. That crack should be taken head on, you are only using the lie back as a crutch and it’s making you weaker. If you’re going to just TR the route climb it however you want, if you’re trying to advance your climbing ability start working on taking it head on the skills you’ll learn will pay off later. Of course that’s just my opinion from the climbing I’ve done, do what you want.
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dr_feelgood
Mar 16, 2009, 12:45 PM
Post #30 of 55
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kane_schutzman wrote: The hell with each and every one of you vegan eatin hippi sons a bitches. Im tick marking every lieback crack I climb from now until I fucking die. Someone else say something smart and I'm going to start racking one of those neon green concrete chalk sticks on my rack. Good day.
Why not just carry a sharpie and write which sized piece you're going to place with several green and red arrows pointing to the proper orientation.
Toolbag.
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dr_feelgood
Mar 16, 2009, 12:46 PM
Post #31 of 55
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kane_schutzman wrote: 1. That route looks like garbage with a capital G, and a pronounced B, and GGGGGGG, and the end. 2. I shoot the next person I see jamming a lieback.
Yes, death threats in compensation for poor skill. Real mature.
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nthusiastj
Mar 16, 2009, 1:20 PM
Post #32 of 55
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mar_leclerc wrote: It could be jammed theoretically. The problem is that the crack cuts into the face at an angle (not cutting straight into the rock) so one side is a jug and the other is a big sloper. It's pretty easy just to grab the jug and put your feet on the sloper and cruise up. Halfway is gets wider and I just jam it and take a rest, then the crack petters out and it's face holds to the top. The climb is way below my max grade, so I guess I ought to just ball up and go for it... Heres the route (I know Im pinkpointing, please don't turn this into a hate thread) [image]http://imglarge.mountainproject.com/106174126_898ee7.jpg[/image]
The key really is to know your cam sizes to your hand and finger sizes as someone has said.
It looks like you can see the whole route from the ground and scope out what gear you want and in what order. Just rack the gear on your harness in order.
Tick marks probably aren't necessary if it's pretty far below your ability. Just take some time to memeorize where you want to place.
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j_ung
Mar 16, 2009, 2:06 PM
Post #33 of 55
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Ya know, there are several stages of ticking that fall someplace between none and a ten-inch long, 1/2-inch thick line that looks like it was applied in oil by Michaelangelo. If done responsibly, tick marking doesn't have to be an ethics issue.
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thabadcharacter
Mar 16, 2009, 2:19 PM
Post #34 of 55
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Hey, could be worse- on the Black Roof pitch of the North america Wall/El Nino, there were taped down Post-It notes saying "#3 Camalot, 0.5 Camalot, etc". In very Euro handwriting I might add!
(This post was edited by thabadcharacter on Mar 16, 2009, 4:13 PM)
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kane_schutzman
Mar 16, 2009, 3:21 PM
Post #35 of 55
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justroberto wrote: devkrev wrote: kane_schutzman wrote: My style is to be able to climb another day. I'm not going to compromise my fucking good health just to do a shitty lieback route in good style. OHH god don't chalk up the rock. R U fucking serious? Then why lead the climb at all? dev Well, what else is he going to do with the 53 cams he bought before he knew how to use them?
I've tried the sharpie thing, first off, the rock tears the tips up too easily. The line is too skinny, probably the size of your penis. Also the chalk sticks get into the divits in the rock better.
Mr. Feelgood.
(This post was edited by kane_schutzman on Mar 16, 2009, 3:24 PM)
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kane_schutzman
Mar 16, 2009, 3:26 PM
Post #36 of 55
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I think the real problem here is that neither of you climb hard enough to know why tick marks can be useful.
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diebetes
Mar 16, 2009, 4:15 PM
Post #37 of 55
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kane_schutzman wrote: I think the real problem here is that neither of you climb hard enough to know why tick marks can be useful.
It's pretty self explanatory what purpose tick marks serve. And I mean, if you know what they're good for, chances are the rest of the people on here do as well.
I like to keep things friendly, but I gotta say Kane, you're being a big ol bag-o-douche in this thread. Please remedy this.
Also, keep in mind that more than just climbers enjoy rock faces and the areas around them. Sure climbers get used to chalk, but lets face it- if it weren't for climbers, there wouldn't be chalk on the rock to begin with (don't be a smart-ass and point out exceptions provided by nature). Think of something really hate- let's go with vaginas. Imagine how upset you'd be if you had to put up with unwanted vaginas scattering your recreational areas. You'd probably think that the people responsible were selfish. You'd be right.
Keep chalk to a minimum.
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Tipton
Mar 16, 2009, 4:25 PM
Post #38 of 55
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kane_schutzman wrote: I think the real problem here is that neither of you climb hard enough to know why tick marks can be useful.
I think the real problem here is that you haven't climbed long enough to know why tick marks can be a pain.
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brownie710
Mar 16, 2009, 5:03 PM
Post #39 of 55
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kane_schutzman wrote: The hell with each and every one of you vegan eatin hippi sons a bitches. Im tick marking every lieback crack I climb from now until I fucking die. Someone else say something smart and I'm going to start racking one of those neon green concrete chalk sticks on my rack. Good day.
I believe this is the adult translation of "I'm taking my marbles and I'm going home!"
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md3
Mar 16, 2009, 5:11 PM
Post #40 of 55
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Off topic as to tick marks -- but maybe its worth mentioning that if you do end up laying something back thats hard for you on lead, its a good time to be wearing a helmet. At least when I have taken falls in those situations, I have sometimes ended up flipping over and falling in less predictable ways than when climbing straight in.
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mar_leclerc
Mar 16, 2009, 6:18 PM
Post #41 of 55
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kane_schutzman wrote: I think the real problem here is that neither of you climb hard enough to know why tick marks can be useful.
The only time I ever used a tick-mark was on a V9 to find a fotthold around a corner.
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mar_leclerc
Mar 16, 2009, 6:20 PM
Post #42 of 55
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Johnny_Fang wrote: hey, where is that climb? i've spent a decent amount time at squamish but i can't identify it. it looks fun.
Thats because its at the Harrison Bluffs, near Harison Hot Springs, a couple hours East of Squamish. The crack the right is like our local 'Crime of the Century'...
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sungam
Mar 16, 2009, 6:20 PM
Post #43 of 55
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mar_leclerc wrote: kane_schutzman wrote: I think the real problem here is that neither of you climb hard enough to know why tick marks can be useful. The only time I ever used a tick-mark was on a V9 to find a fotthold around a corner.
Banz him now! NOW!
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caliclimbergrl
Mar 16, 2009, 9:00 PM
Post #44 of 55
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angry wrote: There are some exceptions I can think of. That said, I've climbed thousands of cracks at all grades. If I were to chart it all out I bet that the layback is the "better" or "easier" way maybe 2% of the time. For the sake of argument, lets say it's 10%. That leaves you with 90% of crack routes working better with pure jamming techniques and not laybacks. I'd say that would be the ideal skillset to follow a strict dogma of techniques. Even on the laybacks, you still place your pro off jams then return to laybacks once you're ready to climb again.
I agree with you. My first thought when I read the OP was, "Why in the world would you layback a splitter?! There are plenty of cracks that you need to layback. But they're usually corner cracks -- almost never splitters.
And seeing the picture confirms that for me -- yeah, it's a bit of an awkward angle, but it looks like granite so you could jam one foot and smear the other. Looks like a jam crack to me!
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caliclimbergrl
Mar 16, 2009, 9:03 PM
Post #45 of 55
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Tipton wrote: Tick marks suck. They are so much more obvious than a chalked hold and don't clean nearly as easy. If your good health is at risk, then you shouldn't be leading the route.
I'm sure this is true in a lot of places, but it looks like he's in British Columbia. It rains pretty much constantly 9 months a year there and usually at least once a month for at least several days straight even in the summer. Tick marks aren't a problem up there.
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Tipton
Mar 16, 2009, 9:35 PM
Post #46 of 55
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caliclimbergrl wrote: Tipton wrote: Tick marks suck. They are so much more obvious than a chalked hold and don't clean nearly as easy. If your good health is at risk, then you shouldn't be leading the route. I'm sure this is true in a lot of places, but it looks like he's in British Columbia. It rains pretty much constantly 9 months a year there and usually at least once a month for at least several days straight even in the summer. Tick marks aren't a problem up there.
I suppose that might be the case. But for the person who jumps on the route an hour after you, they are still an annoyance.
Personally, I think the disadvantages outweigh the advantages. I mean, is it really that hard to remember what goes where? If you've already inspected it and worked out the placements on top rope, then why can't you just rack the pieces in the appropriate order and remember where to put them?
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caliclimbergrl
Mar 16, 2009, 9:39 PM
Post #47 of 55
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Tick marks suck. They are so much more obvious than a chalked hold and don't clean nearly as easy. If your good health is at risk, then you shouldn't be leading the route.[/quote]
I'm sure this is true in a lot of places, but it looks like he's in British Columbia. It rains pretty much constantly 9 months a year there and usually at least once a month for at least several days straight even in the summer. Tick marks aren't a problem up there.[/quote]
I suppose that might be the case. But for the person who jumps on the route an hour after you, they are still an annoyance.
Personally, I think the disadvantages outweigh the advantages. I mean, is it really that hard to remember what goes where? If you've already inspected it and worked out the placements on top rope, then why can't you just rack the pieces in the appropriate order and remember where to put them?[/quote]
I don't know -- personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable placing gear blind. I wouldn't trust my memory. Actually, I'm not entirely sure I'd trust tick marks either. Just because you're placing the right size piece in the right place doesn't mean it's well placed! If I couldn't at least get jams for gear placement, I wouldn't lead that crack. But it wouldn't really bother me to climb it with tick marks on it.
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hafilax
Mar 16, 2009, 9:50 PM
Post #48 of 55
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mar_leclerc wrote: It could be jammed theoretically. The problem is that the crack cuts into the face at an angle (not cutting straight into the rock) so one side is a jug and the other is a big sloper. It's pretty easy just to grab the jug and put your feet on the sloper and cruise up. Halfway is gets wider and I just jam it and take a rest, then the crack petters out and it's face holds to the top. The climb is way below my max grade, so I guess I ought to just ball up and go for it... Heres the route (I know Im pinkpointing, please don't turn this into a hate thread) 
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kane_schutzman
Mar 16, 2009, 11:34 PM
Post #50 of 55
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Frankly the best thing about this deal is that I'm not sure I've ever even placed a tick mark. Still I will defend them in some instances. I have bigger things to worry about, tick marks don't annoy me, I pass them by. Wow, well this was fun guys.
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