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cush
Feb 21, 2009, 9:49 PM
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what distinguishes a multi-pitch trad climb from a big wall climb? is it number of pitches? gear needed? staying the night and bivying on the rock? where does multi-pitch trad end and big wall climbing begin?
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sungam
Feb 21, 2009, 11:22 PM
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The same place higballing stops and free soloing starts, duh.
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angry
Feb 22, 2009, 1:36 AM
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I've always considered an aid route a big wall and a free route a multipitch climb.
Sure the line blurs when we talk about people freeing walls and common sense would also dictate that I also don't mean really short aid routes.
Call it what you want though, if you call the nose a multi-pitch route, noone will argue.
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summerprophet
Feb 22, 2009, 1:50 AM
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A multi-pitch climb is rather self explanitory, just a climb involving more than one pitch.
A "Big Wall" climb is a climb with a rating of V, VI, or VII.
Simply put, climbing involving more than a day of commitment.
These lines have been blurred as free climbers are running up grade V's quite regularly these days.
Big Walls do not nessesarily involve aid climbing, but it is pretty rare to find climbs in the 20+ pitch range that do not require atleast a little aid. As well if they are easily freeable, then they likely can be done without an overnight.
Hope this helps clarify things.
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ja1484
Feb 22, 2009, 2:37 AM
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I go with John Long's loose definition of big wall being 10 pitches or more on the same route.
Whether or not it involves a bivy depends on the party.
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caliclimbergrl
Feb 22, 2009, 2:57 AM
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Is that really John Long's definition? I hate to disagree with that guy, but I've done routes that long and I really wouldn't consider them big walls!! Did 'em in a day, no bivy, no aid climbing, no hauling ... they felt like any other multi-pitch to me! I have had to walk off in the dark a few times, but I don't think that makes something a big wall. I agree with the others -- I think there needs to be a bivy and/or aid climbing involved and probably a haul bag to really call something a big wall. But I'm no expert -- I've never done a big wall.
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climbingtrash
Feb 22, 2009, 3:29 AM
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caliclimbergrl wrote: Is that really John Long's definition? I hate to disagree with that guy, but I've done routes that long and I really wouldn't consider them big walls!! Did 'em in a day, no bivy, no aid climbing, no hauling ... they felt like any other multi-pitch to me! I have had to walk off in the dark a few times, but I don't think that makes something a big wall. I agree with the others -- I think there needs to be a bivy and/or aid climbing involved and probably a haul bag to really call something a big wall. But I'm no expert -- I've never done a big wall.
But what do you think sounds HAWTER...multi-pitch climber or Big waller?
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caliclimbergrl
Feb 22, 2009, 3:34 AM
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climbingtrash wrote: caliclimbergrl wrote: Is that really John Long's definition? I hate to disagree with that guy, but I've done routes that long and I really wouldn't consider them big walls!! Did 'em in a day, no bivy, no aid climbing, no hauling ... they felt like any other multi-pitch to me! I have had to walk off in the dark a few times, but I don't think that makes something a big wall. I agree with the others -- I think there needs to be a bivy and/or aid climbing involved and probably a haul bag to really call something a big wall. But I'm no expert -- I've never done a big wall. But what do you think sounds HAWTER...multi-pitch climber or Big waller?
LOL -- multi-pitch climber!! Big wallers are usually stinky! ;)
(though I would like to do some big walls at some point).
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sungam
Feb 22, 2009, 4:14 AM
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Heheh. Hear that, climbingtrash? yore stinky.
I, however, took a shower today. The effect is slightly ruined by the state of my cloths, but at least I'm not a stinky big waller.
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climbingtrash
Feb 22, 2009, 4:26 AM
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sungam wrote: Heheh. Hear that, climbingtrash? yore stinky. I, however, took a shower today. The effect is slightly ruined by the state of my cloths, but at least I'm not a stinky big waller.
I'm no stinky Big Waller! Just a lowly, sweet smellin' multi-pitcher...
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sungam
Feb 22, 2009, 4:55 AM
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climbingtrash wrote: sungam wrote: Heheh. Hear that, climbingtrash? yore stinky. I, however, took a shower today. The effect is slightly ruined by the state of my cloths, but at least I'm not a stinky big waller. I'm no stinky Big Waller! Just a lowly, sweet smellin' multi-pitcher...
Okay, how's this?
I'm a big waller in my spare time, but I mostly just multi pitch.
Still gets the haawtsness of the big wall without the smellyness.
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climbingtrash
Feb 22, 2009, 5:09 AM
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sungam wrote: climbingtrash wrote: sungam wrote: Heheh. Hear that, climbingtrash? yore stinky. I, however, took a shower today. The effect is slightly ruined by the state of my cloths, but at least I'm not a stinky big waller. I'm no stinky Big Waller! Just a lowly, sweet smellin' multi-pitcher... Hmmmm. Okay, how's this? I'm a big waller in my spare time, but I mostly just multi pitch. Still gets the haawtsness of the big wall without the smellyness.
Good strategy...if that don't fool the betties nuttin' will.
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sungam
Feb 22, 2009, 5:17 AM
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climbingtrash wrote: sungam wrote: climbingtrash wrote: sungam wrote: Heheh. Hear that, climbingtrash? yore stinky. I, however, took a shower today. The effect is slightly ruined by the state of my cloths, but at least I'm not a stinky big waller. I'm no stinky Big Waller! Just a lowly, sweet smellin' multi-pitcher... Hmmmm. Okay, how's this? I'm a big waller in my spare time, but I mostly just multi pitch. Still gets the haawtsness of the big wall without the smellyness. Good strategy...if that don't fool the betties nuttin' will.
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climbingtrash
Feb 22, 2009, 5:42 AM
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sungam wrote: ...that and the 100 dollar bill I slip in the handshake.
Whoa! That could get you into some real hawt water son.
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sungam
Feb 22, 2009, 6:32 AM
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climbingtrash wrote: sungam wrote: ...that and the 100 dollar bill I slip in the handshake. Whoa! That could get you into some real hawt water son.
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asiaclimber
Feb 22, 2009, 6:55 AM
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couldnt the same route be a big wall to one group of people and a multipitch for another group? as in it depends on how much time it takes to do the route so one group could lead route in 2 days and it might only take another group 8 hours.
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sungam
Feb 22, 2009, 7:00 AM
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Damn, and the thread drift was going so well. We almost took this piece of shite thread to scummunity.
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ja1484
Feb 24, 2009, 8:38 PM
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caliclimbergrl wrote: Is that really John Long's definition? I hate to disagree with that guy, but I've done routes that long and I really wouldn't consider them big walls!! Did 'em in a day, no bivy, no aid climbing, no hauling ... they felt like any other multi-pitch to me! I have had to walk off in the dark a few times, but I don't think that makes something a big wall. I agree with the others -- I think there needs to be a bivy and/or aid climbing involved and probably a haul bag to really call something a big wall. But I'm no expert -- I've never done a big wall.
Loosely interpreted. Long himself is very careful to note that the definition is constantly in flux.
As I said, whether or not there's a bivy depends on the party. I've done 12 pitch routes in a single day without any aid stuff as well - and I mean honest, 150+ pitches.
With all due respect to everyone "discussing" this item, a "big wall" is pretty simple to define. It must be a wall, and it must be big.
No offense to anyone in particular, but the rest of world doesn't really give a shit if you/I/we think it involves bivying, aiding, hauling, etc. or not.
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kachoong
Feb 24, 2009, 8:52 PM
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ja1484 wrote: caliclimbergrl wrote: Is that really John Long's definition? I hate to disagree with that guy, but I've done routes that long and I really wouldn't consider them big walls!! Did 'em in a day, no bivy, no aid climbing, no hauling ... they felt like any other multi-pitch to me! I have had to walk off in the dark a few times, but I don't think that makes something a big wall. I agree with the others -- I think there needs to be a bivy and/or aid climbing involved and probably a haul bag to really call something a big wall. But I'm no expert -- I've never done a big wall. Loosely interpreted. Long himself is very careful to note that the definition is constantly in flux. As I said, whether or not there's a bivy depends on the party. I've done 12 pitch routes in a single day without any aid stuff as well - and I mean honest, 150+ pitches. With all due respect to everyone "discussing" this item, a "big wall" is pretty simple to define. It must be a wall, and it must be big. No offense to anyone in particular, but the rest of world doesn't really give a shit if you/I/we think it involves bivying, aiding, hauling, etc. or not.
Hey... I was going to say that.... but also to disagree, it's not how big it is but what you do with it that counts! 
Also, I would personally call a big wall any route over 1000 feet or 300 meters... but that's just me. 
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petsfed
Feb 24, 2009, 9:24 PM
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cush wrote: what distinguishes a multi-pitch trad climb from a big wall climb? is it number of pitches? gear needed? staying the night and bivying on the rock? where does multi-pitch trad end and big wall climbing begin?
I'd say its any all-rock route that requires either hauling or a bivy from the average party.
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bongbong
Mar 6, 2009, 7:37 PM
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A BigWall is when you can't use the hard-man haul to haul the bag. The hard-man haul is pulling the bag up with your arms.
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HIGHER_CLIMBER
Mar 20, 2009, 1:31 AM
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sungam wrote: climbingtrash wrote: sungam wrote: ...that and the 100 dollar bill I slip in the handshake. Whoa! That could get you into some real hawt water son. "hawt water", is that what yore calling it these days?
I'd rather get back to this conversation. Continue
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