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lena_chita
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May 14, 2013, 4:15 PM
Post #26 of 39
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Registered: Jun 27, 2006
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camhead wrote: mikebee wrote: Was the grigri threaded back to front? That seems to be the only other option I can think of. edit: I just reread the whole thread, to me a grigri threaded the wrong way definitely sounds like the most plausible option. Your partner had caught a fall earlier that day with the same grigri/rope combo, so he knows how to catch. The fact he has rope burns shows he was trying to grab the rope but that it was hard to stop. It was not necessarily threaded the wrong way. If a person has rope burns on their non-brake hand, it means that they panicked and gripped down on the climber side, which slows the rope just enough to prevent the brake from engaging, but still fast enough to crater the climber. When this happens, it has nothing to do with what direction the device was threaded. This just goes back to an old adage that jt512 (I think) said a few years ago: "100% of assisted-lock device accidents could be prevented if the belayer was unconscious."
Yeah, the likely scenario is that the belayer just finished feeding out slack (non-brake hand on the rope above gri-gri, brake hand OFF the rope and/or pressing down the cam, either like the old Petzl method, or some modification), and then did not regain firm hold of the rope with the brake hand, with the non-break hand still holding on to the rope above the gri-gri. When the climber fell, the belayer gripped the rope above the gri-gri, preventing it from locking.
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anonymousCoward
May 14, 2013, 5:43 PM
Post #27 of 39
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He had burns on his right hand and he is right handed.
Also I neglected to check before or after the incident to see if the grigri was threaded correctly.
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cracklover
May 14, 2013, 5:57 PM
Post #28 of 39
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anonymousCoward wrote: He had burns on his right hand and he is right handed. Also I neglected to check before or after the incident to see if the grigri was threaded correctly.
Well that is strange. If the two of you can figure it out, I would be very curious to learn what he did. I can think of a few things that might do it, but, barring the gri-gri being threaded backwards, none are very likely.
GO
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Gmburns2000
May 14, 2013, 6:22 PM
Post #29 of 39
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cracklover wrote: anonymousCoward wrote: He had burns on his right hand and he is right handed. Also I neglected to check before or after the incident to see if the grigri was threaded correctly. Well that is strange. If the two of you can figure it out, I would be very curious to learn what he did. I can think of a few things that might do it, but, barring the gri-gri being threaded backwards, none are very likely. GO
While I'm sure this info could give a likely answer if it were his left hand, I'm not sure it's so definitive that we can rule out or give an answer solely on which hand is burned. Yeah, I know which way a grigri feeds, but it's not really out of the realm of possibility that he switched hands for a split second to readjust at the worst possible moment.
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shotwell
May 14, 2013, 6:53 PM
Post #30 of 39
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anonymousCoward wrote: He had burns on his right hand and he is right handed. Also I neglected to check before or after the incident to see if the grigri was threaded correctly.
Did you guys check to make sure the GriGri locked before you climbed this route?
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notapplicable
May 14, 2013, 6:58 PM
Post #31 of 39
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Either the grigri was threaded the wrong way (both of you are at fault for not catching it prior to the climb) and the belayer failed to react quick enough to catch the fall, using the device more or less as an ATC.
Or the belayer held on to the grigri, either holding the cam open or depressing it as you would when feeding slack, and failed to remain in control of brake end of the rope.
Either way, your partner dicked up the belay. That doesn't necessarily mean you should stop climbing with him though. That depends on a lot of other factors. Everyone makes mistakes. Its what they learn from them and how they apply those lessons in the future that really matters.
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hugepedro
May 14, 2013, 8:10 PM
Post #32 of 39
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anonymousCoward wrote: He had burns on his right hand and he is right handed. Also I neglected to check before or after the incident to see if the grigri was threaded correctly.
Here's a thought. Why don't you ask your belayer to describe to you precisely what happened, step by step, in great detail. That way the two of you can figure out what went wrong, and correct any possible poor belay technique on the part of your partner that may have occurred.
If they can't describe exactly what happened, or they are vague about it, I wouldn't let that person belay me again.
The fact that you seem to be completely clueless as to what happened (because you've left out critical details all throughout this thread) is the big red flag for me here. It indicates to me at the very least that you and your partner aren't communicating well, and possibly that you, or them, or both, don't really know what you're doing and could use some mentoring from a more experience climber.
(This post was edited by hugepedro on May 15, 2013, 12:06 AM)
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shotwell
May 14, 2013, 10:54 PM
Post #33 of 39
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notapplicable wrote: Either the grigri was threaded the wrong way (both of you are at fault for not catching it prior to the climb) and the belayer failed to react quick enough to catch the fall, using the device more or less as an ATC. Or the belayer held on to the grigri, either holding the cam open or depressing it as you would when feeding slack, and failed to remain in control of brake end of the rope. Either way, your partner dicked up the belay. That doesn't necessarily mean you should stop climbing with him though. That depends on a lot of other factors. Everyone makes mistakes. Its what they learn from them and how they apply those lessons in the future that really matters.
Something could have been caught in the cam as well. Small rocks can prevent the cam from engaging.
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majid_sabet
May 15, 2013, 4:28 AM
Post #34 of 39
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anonymousCoward wrote: To clarify this a bit, I was right at a bolt and had clipped in. I shouldn't have fallen more than a few feet plus the rope stretch. My partner had a severe rope burn on his hand. Thanks to everyone for their input. I'm still not sure what to make of this situation.
how far where you from your last piece of protection?
been right at the bolt means nothing. honestly all I could think of an ignorance leader taking a big fall cause he forgot to protect himself while climbing too far from belayer expecting belayer to pull 60 feet of rope in split second.
learn from your mistake and move on. next time there may be someone else writing report.
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bearbreeder
May 15, 2013, 6:08 AM
Post #35 of 39
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majid_sabet wrote: anonymousCoward wrote: To clarify this a bit, I was right at a bolt and had clipped in. I shouldn't have fallen more than a few feet plus the rope stretch. My partner had a severe rope burn on his hand. Thanks to everyone for their input. I'm still not sure what to make of this situation. how far where you from your last piece of protection? been right at the bolt means nothing. honestly all I could think of an ignorance leader taking a big fall cause he forgot to protect himself while climbing too far from belayer expecting belayer to pull 60 feet of rope in split second. learn from your mistake and move on. next time there may be someone else writing report.
a perfect example of why asking this kind of stuff on the internet is an exercise in futility ...
right at the bolt and clipped in obviously means that the belayer needs to pull in 60 feet of rope 
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mikebee
May 15, 2013, 7:05 AM
Post #36 of 39
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Registered: Sep 16, 2006
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In reply to: Either the grigri was threaded the wrong way (both of you are at fault for not catching it prior to the climb) and the belayer failed to react quick enough to catch the fall, using the device more or less as an ATC.
I haven't tried it, but I"ve heard that when threaded back to front, a grigri has was less friction than an ATC, so even with good technique, catching a fall with a reverse threaded grigri requires gloves. As I said though, I haven't tried it.
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notapplicable
May 15, 2013, 2:53 PM
Post #37 of 39
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Registered: Aug 31, 2006
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mikebee wrote: In reply to: Either the grigri was threaded the wrong way (both of you are at fault for not catching it prior to the climb) and the belayer failed to react quick enough to catch the fall, using the device more or less as an ATC. I haven't tried it, but I"ve heard that when threaded back to front, a grigri has was less friction than an ATC, so even with good technique, catching a fall with a reverse threaded grigri requires gloves. As I said though, I haven't tried it.
I've only played around with the grigri 2 but catching a short fall when threaded backwards should not be a problem if the belayer is paying attention. You might be SOL if it's a long, hard fall, I did not try to apply that kind of force to the device. I have not personally felt how much friction is imparted by a first generation grigri when threaded backwards. First hand accounts posted here indicate that there should be sufficient friction to arrest a short fall like the one taken by the OP.
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Kartessa
May 15, 2013, 3:58 PM
Post #38 of 39
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Registered: Nov 18, 2008
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notapplicable wrote: mikebee wrote: In reply to: Either the grigri was threaded the wrong way (both of you are at fault for not catching it prior to the climb) and the belayer failed to react quick enough to catch the fall, using the device more or less as an ATC. I haven't tried it, but I"ve heard that when threaded back to front, a grigri has was less friction than an ATC, so even with good technique, catching a fall with a reverse threaded grigri requires gloves. As I said though, I haven't tried it. I've only played around with the grigri 2 but catching a short fall when threaded backwards should not be a problem if the belayer is paying attention. You might be SOL if it's a long, hard fall, I did not try to apply that kind of force to the device. I have not personally felt how much friction is imparted by a first generation grigri when threaded backwards. First hand accounts posted here indicate that there should be sufficient friction to arrest a short fall like the one taken by the OP.
I've done the backwards grigri thing on a first gen on a 9.8 rope. A little extra slippage (not enough to cause a rope burn), but with the brake hand locked down, it caught.
The lowering is where it proved to be a bitch to control - the locking felt to be an all-or-nothing sort of situation.
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Gmburns2000
May 15, 2013, 5:03 PM
Post #39 of 39
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Registered: Mar 6, 2007
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Kartessa wrote: notapplicable wrote: mikebee wrote: In reply to: Either the grigri was threaded the wrong way (both of you are at fault for not catching it prior to the climb) and the belayer failed to react quick enough to catch the fall, using the device more or less as an ATC. I haven't tried it, but I"ve heard that when threaded back to front, a grigri has was less friction than an ATC, so even with good technique, catching a fall with a reverse threaded grigri requires gloves. As I said though, I haven't tried it. I've only played around with the grigri 2 but catching a short fall when threaded backwards should not be a problem if the belayer is paying attention. You might be SOL if it's a long, hard fall, I did not try to apply that kind of force to the device. I have not personally felt how much friction is imparted by a first generation grigri when threaded backwards. First hand accounts posted here indicate that there should be sufficient friction to arrest a short fall like the one taken by the OP. I've done the backwards grigri thing on a first gen on a 9.8 rope. A little extra slippage (not enough to cause a rope burn), but with the brake hand locked down, it caught. The lowering is where it proved to be a bitch to control - the locking felt to be an all-or-nothing sort of situation.
I practiced this at the gym once, just to see what it was like. It was on TR and the fall was short, but yeah, what Dina said ^^. Locking wasn't a problem, but lowering was difficult.
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