That must be the problem the customer expected brake

The fundamental disconnect here - will maybe not with this particular case as the cause and prevention seem pretty obvious - is the insistence that every accident has to have a "fault". Sometimes stuff happens.

The concept that the climber is always ultimately responsible is ludicrous. So I am at fault is some tourist above me clocked me with a rock and turned by brain to mush despite the fact that at the point that he threw the rock from their were warning signs in 3 languages? All you tough guys better stick to your guns and agree that - yup its my fault for choosing to climb. And stick to them again when the young mother and her infant get squashed on their front lawn by the engine falling off the plane - because after all she chose to come out of her house.

...but the issue is that she was sold something that was faulty.

It's only the 'issue' after the fact. The real 'issue' here is that she and / or a partner both assembled an inadequate anchor that was not performant in the face of a failed (and uninspected) sub-component of that anchor.

It's only the 'issue' after the fact. The real 'issue' here is that she and / or a partner both assembled an inadequate anchor that was not performant in the face of a failed (and uninspected) sub-component of that anchor.

You certainly can go on a fishing expedition to attempt to 'assign blame' if you want, but the bottom line is this was an entirely and wholly preventable accident had a single, three-second change to the anchor design been made. It could also have been prevented if a clear anomaly in the webbing had been examined in any detail.

Again, the issues of interest and concern [to climbers here] should be the ones which took place prior to and during those roped activities - not events which are unfolding since.

I have no doubt our legal system will find someone to 'blame', but that is entirely irrelevant to staying alive when you leave the ground climbing.

Did you read that short paragraph past the first sentence and a half? The relevant part: "...or two, understand that falling may have utterly dire consequences resulting from, in part, the failure of that gear." I know this consciously and unconsciously every single time I climb above a first or second bolt (and sometimes the third). If I can't accept that risk, I don't leave the ground.

The risk of gear failing through no fault of your own exists. Surely, you don't disagree with that, right? It may be the manufacturer's fault that the gear failed, but you own the resulting consequences of it entirely. You chose to climb. You knew the risk existed.

Thankfully, though some folks disagree with you and I and GO in this thread, I think we're all of a similar mind when we're out there climbing. We're not thinking, "I'm going to sue this company if my webbing fails." We are thinking, "I need to protect myself." I think.

I mean, there seems to be a very strongly held belief by some of the posters here that the equipment must keep them safe, otherwise they have been betrayed. I know that if I really believed that, I would climb differently than I do.

Don't get me wrong, I rely on my equipment to a degree. But only to the degree that I trust myself to verify it.

The climber's fault? No. Is the climber responsible for the situation he or she is in? Yes.

So I think a warranty theory would be just as hard to pursue as a tort theory. In either case, you would have to convince a judge or jury that it is reasonable for a climber to trust their lives to a single, non-redundant strand of uninspected webbing. Most climbers would find such an idea ridiculous (at least where the defect was easily noticeable), but as others have noted, the chances of a climber being on the jury are negligible.

So do you pull test every piece of gear you buy?

Jay

what makes climbing different from every other aspect of society?

What makes climbing different is that it is a very dangerous activity and if manufactures were held to the same standard of care as say, automobiles, then they would probably stop making gear. Or rather, stop selling it in the USA.

In general I am glad about this and I'm glad that it has usually been very hard for injured climbers to successfully sue someone when they get injured.

... The retailer and the manufacturere will get sued and the court system will divy up the financial responsibility between the two. There will definitely be a payout whether you, or I feel it is warranted.

Well I happened to find all your misspellings funny, given the context they were in. But then again, I do have a pretty dumb sense of humor, as you point out. Except that I think my humor probably sucks whether I agree with you or not!


Yeah, it does get silly. But you are the one concocting silly scenarios, not me. I'm merely saying that in an actual climbing scenario, I am responsible for my climbing. It's not macho, it's fact. No-one else will save my sorry ass if I fuck up. That's pretty much what it boils down to.

GO

Haven't read every single post, but most of them.

There is no legal requirement to build a redundant anchor, although 'best practices' could be argued. She bought webbing rated a certain strength for climbing and it failed. The retailer and the manufacturere will get sued and the court system will divy up the financial responsibility between the two. There will definitely be a payout whether you, or I feel it is warranted.

the fact that you consider your gear breaking to be a personal fuckup is pretty much the definition of machismo.

I think the store fucked up. Same things that have already been stated. And furthermore, I can totally see a tape splice being strong enough for one to snap the webbing between ones's hands and nothing feel funny. If one wasn't used to handling webbing.

and to everyone screaming redundancy: I'd rap off of a length of brand new webbing tied around a good tree. come on, you wouldn't?

I don't know about the "machismo" part, but I'm with you on the rest. The store fucked up big time and should be held accountable. And I've rapped off a lot worse than a single new piece of webbing around a good tree.

Does anybody know what one of these tape splices looks like? Does it completely hide the fact that the webbing is not continuous?

Jay

...the fact that you consider your gear breaking to be a personal fuckup is pretty much the definition of machismo.

I think the store fucked up. Same things that have already been stated. And furthermore, I can totally see a tape splice being strong enough for one to snap the webbing between ones's hands and nothing feel funny. If one wasn't used to handling webbing.

...and to everyone screaming redundancy: I'd rap off of a length of brand new webbing tied around a good tree. come on, you wouldn't?