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Learner
Jun 9, 2011, 10:37 PM
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Is it called "sending" a route even if you fell in the process of getting to the top?
(Or, is there some other term for climbing a route even though you've fallen in the process?)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe:
"Sending" = successfully climbing to the top of a route, no matter how many times you fell
"Redpointing" = successfully climbing to the top of a route without falling, after failing to do so before
"Flashing" = successfully climbing to the top of a route on your first attempt, without falling, after only observing someone else climb it
"On-Sighting" = successfully climbing to the top of a route on your first attempt, without falling, and without first observing someone else climb it
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johnwesely
Jun 9, 2011, 11:15 PM
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Learner wrote: Is it called "sending" a route even if you fell in the process of getting to the top? (Or, is there some other term for climbing a route even though you've fallen in the process?) Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe: " Sending" = successfully climbing to the top of a route, no matter how many times you fell " Redpointing" = successfully climbing to the top of a route without falling, after failing to do so before " Flashing" = successfully climbing to the top of a route on your first attempt, without falling, after only observing someone else climb it " On-Sighting" = successfully climbing to the top of a route on your first attempt, without falling, and without first observing someone else climb it
Sending implies that you did not fall or weight gear in anyway. The word you are looking for is hangdogging.
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Learner
Jun 10, 2011, 12:01 AM
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johnwesely wrote: Learner wrote: Is it called "sending" a route even if you fell in the process of getting to the top? (Or, is there some other term for climbing a route even though you've fallen in the process?) Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe: " Sending" = successfully climbing to the top of a route, no matter how many times you fell " Redpointing" = successfully climbing to the top of a route without falling, after failing to do so before " Flashing" = successfully climbing to the top of a route on your first attempt, without falling, after only observing someone else climb it " On-Sighting" = successfully climbing to the top of a route on your first attempt, without falling, and without first observing someone else climb it Sending implies that you did not fall or weight gear in anyway. The word you are looking for is hangdogging.
So, "sending" and "redpointing" are exactly synonymous?
I'll have to assume that if you attempt to send a route and you do make it to the top despite falling once or twice, that is simply "attempting to send the route"...
(This post was edited by Learner on Jun 10, 2011, 1:10 AM)
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redlude97
Jun 10, 2011, 12:15 AM
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Learner wrote: johnwesely wrote: Learner wrote: Is it called "sending" a route even if you fell in the process of getting to the top? (Or, is there some other term for climbing a route even though you've fallen in the process?) Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe: " Sending" = successfully climbing to the top of a route, no matter how many times you fell " Redpointing" = successfully climbing to the top of a route without falling, after failing to do so before " Flashing" = successfully climbing to the top of a route on your first attempt, without falling, after only observing someone else climb it " On-Sighting" = successfully climbing to the top of a route on your first attempt, without falling, and without first observing someone else climb it Sending implies that you did not fall or weight gear in anyway. The word you are looking for is hangdogging. So, "sending" and "redpointing" are exactly synonymous?
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Learner
Jun 10, 2011, 1:03 AM
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redlude97 wrote: Learner wrote: johnwesely wrote: Learner wrote: Is it called "sending" a route even if you fell in the process of getting to the top? (Or, is there some other term for climbing a route even though you've fallen in the process?) Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe: " Sending" = successfully climbing to the top of a route, no matter how many times you fell " Redpointing" = successfully climbing to the top of a route without falling, after failing to do so before " Flashing" = successfully climbing to the top of a route on your first attempt, without falling, after only observing someone else climb it " On-Sighting" = successfully climbing to the top of a route on your first attempt, without falling, and without first observing someone else climb it Sending implies that you did not fall or weight gear in anyway. The word you are looking for is hangdogging. So, "sending" and "redpointing" are exactly synonymous? No....
So, "sending" is whenever you climb a route successfully without falling, regardless of which attempt it was or if you've seen someone else climb it?
Tell me if this is correct:
Sending is climbing a route without falling, regardless of whether you redpointed, flashed, or on-sighted. In each of these cases, you would be sending the route--but each case (redpoint/flash/on-sight) refers to your experience prior to sending it. This allows the term "send" a more general application than "redpoint," "flash," or "on-sight."
(This post was edited by Learner on Jun 10, 2011, 1:07 AM)
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TarHeelEMT
Jun 10, 2011, 1:09 AM
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"Send" is a more inclusive term than redpoint and can be applied to top-roping.
"Redpoint" means you climbed it on lead without falling after previous attempts.
"Flash" - climb on lead first attempt without falling, having received beta
"Onsight" - Same as flash, but no beta
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Learner
Jun 10, 2011, 1:17 AM
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TarHeelEMT wrote: "Send" is a more inclusive term than redpoint and can be applied to top-roping. "Redpoint" means you climbed it on lead without falling after previous attempts. "Flash" - climb on lead first attempt without falling, having received beta "Onsight" - Same as flash, but no beta
Thanks! That's what I was thinking (in my last reply). Thanks for the link as well. I didn't know "beta" until now either.
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johnwesely
Jun 10, 2011, 2:53 AM
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TarHeelEMT wrote: "Send" is a more inclusive term than redpoint and can be applied to top-roping. "Redpoint" means you climbed it on lead without falling after previous attempts. "Flash" - climb on lead first attempt without falling, having received beta "Onsight" - Same as flash, but no beta
I would never in a million years say I sent something that I had top roped.
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TarHeelEMT
Jun 10, 2011, 3:16 AM
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johnwesely wrote: TarHeelEMT wrote: "Send" is a more inclusive term than redpoint and can be applied to top-roping. "Redpoint" means you climbed it on lead without falling after previous attempts. "Flash" - climb on lead first attempt without falling, having received beta "Onsight" - Same as flash, but no beta I would never in a million years say I sent something that I had top roped.
Personally, i rarely use any of those terms. People use send in that context, though. Especially in the gym.
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bearbreeder
Jun 10, 2011, 3:16 AM
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sending does not include TRing IMO ...
the only people i know who think sending includes TRing are people fresh out of the gym or TR tough guys ...
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JAB
Jun 10, 2011, 8:53 AM
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Agree. Sending IMHO means that you led the route clean. Sending can mean either redpoint, flash or onsight. Often it is used in a context of "I sent it on my 3rd try". It I toprope something clean, I just say "I toproped it clean".
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michael1245
Jun 10, 2011, 12:45 PM
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I just say, "I DID IT".
Yay!!! 
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blueeyedclimber
Jun 10, 2011, 12:48 PM
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johnwesely wrote: TarHeelEMT wrote: "Send" is a more inclusive term than redpoint and can be applied to top-roping. "Redpoint" means you climbed it on lead without falling after previous attempts. "Flash" - climb on lead first attempt without falling, having received beta "Onsight" - Same as flash, but no beta I would never in a million years say I sent something that I had top roped.
Me neither. But how often do you toprope? I would say I toproped it clean, if anything. It's not often I talk to anyone about my "top rope sends." 
Josh
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saint_john
Jun 10, 2011, 1:10 PM
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to "send" is to complete a climb successfully from bottom to top whether is is TR, trad, boulder, indoor or outdoor.
what if a route is not bolted and you can only TR it? have you then not "sent" it?
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johnwesely
Jun 10, 2011, 1:28 PM
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blueeyedclimber wrote: johnwesely wrote: TarHeelEMT wrote: "Send" is a more inclusive term than redpoint and can be applied to top-roping. "Redpoint" means you climbed it on lead without falling after previous attempts. "Flash" - climb on lead first attempt without falling, having received beta "Onsight" - Same as flash, but no beta I would never in a million years say I sent something that I had top roped. Me neither. But how often do you toprope? I would say I toproped it clean, if anything. It's not often I talk to anyone about my "top rope sends." Josh
I have top roped, not including seconding multipitch, maybe 5 routes, so I guess I really don't have a say.
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blueeyedclimber
Jun 10, 2011, 1:28 PM
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saint_john wrote: to "send" is to complete a climb successfully from bottom to top whether is is TR, trad, boulder, indoor or outdoor. what if a route is not bolted and you can only TR it? have you then not "sent" it?
I did not say that it WASN'T a send. Just that, to brag about sending it on top rope is rather lame 
Josh
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saint_john
Jun 10, 2011, 1:33 PM
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blueeyedclimber wrote: saint_john wrote: to "send" is to complete a climb successfully from bottom to top whether is is TR, trad, boulder, indoor or outdoor. what if a route is not bolted and you can only TR it? have you then not "sent" it? I did not say that it WASN'T a send. Just that, to brag about sending it on top rope is rather lame Josh
that I agree with
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sungam
Jun 10, 2011, 2:08 PM
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johnwesely wrote: TarHeelEMT wrote: "Send" is a more inclusive term than redpoint and can be applied to top-roping. "Redpoint" means you climbed it on lead without falling after previous attempts. "Flash" - climb on lead first attempt without falling, having received beta "Onsight" - Same as flash, but no beta I would never in a million years say I sent something that I had top roped.
*Sits back and awaits the confoozion*
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johnwesely
Jun 10, 2011, 3:04 PM
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sungam wrote: johnwesely wrote: TarHeelEMT wrote: "Send" is a more inclusive term than redpoint and can be applied to top-roping. "Redpoint" means you climbed it on lead without falling after previous attempts. "Flash" - climb on lead first attempt without falling, having received beta "Onsight" - Same as flash, but no beta I would never in a million years say I sent something that I had top roped. Well, you don't climb on Southern Sandstone. *Sits back and awaits the confoozion*
So confused.
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aprice00
Jun 10, 2011, 3:42 PM
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Learner wrote: Is it called "sending" a route even if you fell in the process of getting to the top? (Or, is there some other term for climbing a route even though you've fallen in the process?) Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe: " Sending" = successfully climbing to the top of a route, no matter how many times you fell " Redpointing" = successfully climbing to the top of a route without falling, after failing to do so before " Flashing" = successfully climbing to the top of a route on your first attempt, without falling, after only observing someone else climb it " On-Sighting" = successfully climbing to the top of a route on your first attempt, without falling, and without first observing someone else climb it
To Send is to Ascend bottom to Top. The term does not apply any contengensies on how. Anything more is trying to force meaning onto the word (Ad Hoc?). There are plenty of terms (Redpoint, flash, on-sight) that describe specifics on how. If you need to convey how, use those.
You could argue that hangdogging up a route is sending. I dont know why you would... but It could be argued that you asceded the route.
The one thing that is not "Sending" is slacklineing. Im not going to call someone out on it but you'll never hear me use send this way.
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cracklover
Jun 10, 2011, 4:07 PM
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aprice00 wrote: Learner wrote: Is it called "sending" a route even if you fell in the process of getting to the top? (Or, is there some other term for climbing a route even though you've fallen in the process?) Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe: " Sending" = successfully climbing to the top of a route, no matter how many times you fell " Redpointing" = successfully climbing to the top of a route without falling, after failing to do so before " Flashing" = successfully climbing to the top of a route on your first attempt, without falling, after only observing someone else climb it " On-Sighting" = successfully climbing to the top of a route on your first attempt, without falling, and without first observing someone else climb it To Send is to Ascend bottom to Top. The term does not apply any contengensies on how. Anything more is trying to force meaning onto the word (Ad Hoc?). There are plenty of terms (Redpoint, flash, on-sight) that describe specifics on how. If you need to convey how, use those. You could argue that hangdogging up a route is sending. I dont know why you would... but It could be argued that you asceded the route. The one thing that is not "Sending" is slacklineing. Im not going to call someone out on it but you'll never hear me use send this way.
^^^ Is wrong.
But anyway...
Back to the question of toproping. To send is to complete the route or problem in good style. So if it's a toprope route in the gym and I climbed it with no falls, there's nothing whatsoever lame or shady or embarrasing about saying I sent it.
The same is true outside. Though some of you may not be aware of it, there are places where short and not very protectable cliffs are not bolted into sport routes, they are left as toprope routes. To say that you sent one is perfectly clear, and perfectly proud.
GO
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sungam
Jun 10, 2011, 4:15 PM
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johnwesely wrote: sungam wrote: johnwesely wrote: TarHeelEMT wrote: "Send" is a more inclusive term than redpoint and can be applied to top-roping. "Redpoint" means you climbed it on lead without falling after previous attempts. "Flash" - climb on lead first attempt without falling, having received beta "Onsight" - Same as flash, but no beta I would never in a million years say I sent something that I had top roped. Well, you don't climb on Southern Sandstone. *Sits back and awaits the confoozion* So confused.
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