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RedRightHand
Nov 6, 2012, 12:29 PM
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As a beginner I would find it very helpfull to have some sorth of benchmark to indicate if I have been progressing fast enough. And I'm quite sure I'm not the only one.
If everyone could answer the following questions, it will be easy to compare your own rate of progression to that of other climbers.
Here's an example with my answers:
YOUR TRAINING
-------------------
How long have you been climbing? 6 months
How many times do you climb a week/month? 2x/week (1 bouldering session and 1 lenghts)
How long does an average training session last? 2,5-3 hours
Do you take any coaching? No
Are you reading any literature on climbing? The Self-Coached Climber
Are you doing any other training to improve your climbing? 1x week upper boddy training, running (about 20 miles/week)
YOUR LEVEL
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Indoor TR grade(you can climb at least 3 routes of this grade)? 5.10a (6a)
Indoor Lead grade? NA
Indoor Bouldering grade? V3 (6a/6b)
Outdoor TR grade? NA
Outdoor Lead grade? NA
Outdoor Bouldering grade? V2 (5/5+)
Please be honest, it's not a competition. Thank you!
(This post was edited by RedRightHand on Nov 6, 2012, 2:12 PM)
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sbaclimber
Nov 6, 2012, 1:29 PM
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about .06
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sungam
Nov 6, 2012, 1:31 PM
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I actually have 2 characters, and I DM.
My first character is a fun but devious and dastardly dark elf assassin - kinda a rogue/ranger mix. When I'm in a more friendly mood I also have a half orc beserker. Both are level4/5 or thereabouts, it's been a while.
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RedRightHand
Nov 6, 2012, 2:14 PM
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edited for those who have lost all touch with reality due to RPG's
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JimTitt
Nov 6, 2012, 2:16 PM
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sbaclimber wrote: about .06
Your spraying again, you were worse than that when I climbed with you.
I´ve had a summer of not training, not climbing, copious drinking and binge eating and got to 8.36 (ratio of dogged to onsight routes).
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sbaclimber
Nov 6, 2012, 2:29 PM
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JimTitt wrote: sbaclimber wrote: about .06 Your spraying again, you were worse than that when I climbed with you. I´ve had a summer of not training, not climbing, copious drinking and binge eating and got to 8.36 (ratio of dogged to onsight routes). 
I was referring to my BAC.
PS: if it had been my dogging vs onsight ratio, you're right, that would've been spraying. That has only gotten worse since summer. 
(This post was edited by sbaclimber on Nov 6, 2012, 2:31 PM)
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camhead
Nov 6, 2012, 3:33 PM
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Your criteria is not too useful. Simply saying what your "lead level" is does not tell us anything; it could mean redpoint, onsight, consistent level, best ever level, second go level, hangdog level, sport level, trad level.
A few years ago I tried to quantify climbing ability in a slightly different way. Here is the thread.
In the end, there is a simpler solution to determining what level of climber you are, though. Here is the formula:
Take the lowest-rated route that you have fallen on in the last six months, and subtract a number grade. This is your "solid" level. For example, you fall on a 5.10a? You are a solid 5.9 minus climber. Put it on your profile here. You're welcome.
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cracklover
Nov 6, 2012, 7:06 PM
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camhead wrote: Your criteria is not too useful. Simply saying what your "lead level" is does not tell us anything; it could mean redpoint, onsight, consistent level, best ever level, second go level, hangdog level, sport level, trad level. A few years ago I tried to quantify climbing ability in a slightly different way. Here is the thread. In the end, there is a simpler solution to determining what level of climber you are, though. Here is the formula: Take the lowest-rated route that you have fallen on in the last six months, and subtract a number grade. This is your "solid" level. For example, you fall on a 5.10a? You are a solid 5.9 minus climber. Put it on your profile here. You're welcome.
Yeah, that's always an interesting criteria. (More so than the latest in a long line of "I started climbing in the gym X months ago, and I can toprope 5.Y am I climbing hard enough?" discussion).
Another one is what to put in your profile here on rc.com.
The questions here on RC.com are a little bizarre, so maybe we each have our own way of answering them. Here's what I do.
Trad Lead:
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Trad leading is about onsighting to me. But also about pushing your limits. So I want to know the level where you have a better than 50% chance of onsighting a single pitch of trad, of nearly any variety (face climbing, continuous crack in everything from fingers to wide, slab, vertical, overhanging, etc). If you pretty much never climb one of those types, you get a pass on that. But you must be solid in almost all, to the point where, when you don't onsight, you will still get up it quickly and efficiently, even if it means a hang or two.
If I climb with you, and you get on a pitch of this grade or easier, I can expect you to get up it without an epic.
Trad Follow:
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The hardest honest trad grade you've redpointed recently should be a reasonable metric. No soft borderline cases. You should be able to do almost all the moves off the couch, although if you might need to pull on a little gear to follow me, that's fine.
Again, the key here is no epics. If there's a chance you simply can't get up it without having to break out the prussiks, the grade is too high. If I climb with you, and we get on a multi-pitch trad route at this grade, I can expect it will be very hard for you, but you'll have the skills and strength to follow me on these pitches, while leading easier ones.
Sport Lead:
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The hardest sprayable grade you've redpointed. It can be a little soft, and it can cater to your style. It's understood that the hardest thing you can work into submission is way beyond what you can walk up tomorrow.... But... if you're not climbing at that level now, and we get together, you should let me know.
If you get on a route at this grade, I expect you may or may not be able to get to the top without some shenanigans.
Sport follow:
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Only reason to follow a sport route is 1 - to just run up it to clean it quickly. This should be the grade where you absolutely will not fall off into space and have a hard time getting back on. Or 2 - to do multi-pitch sport. Again, this should be the grade where you can get up it pretty easily.
If you clean a route at this grade, you'll get up and down it quick and easy.
GO
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jomagam
Nov 6, 2012, 7:32 PM
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RedRightHand wrote: As a beginner I would find it very helpfull to have some sorth of benchmark to indicate if I have been progressing fast enough.
False. Enjoy climbing and don't worry about comparing yourself to others.
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Wade308
Nov 6, 2012, 7:49 PM
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I'll play, but I doubt it will be very helpful.
YOUR TRAINING
-------------------
How long have you been climbing? 1st intro course was Sept. 2012
How many times do you climb a week/month? I've been twice since intro course.
How long does an average training session last? Training?
Do you take any coaching? Just beta from the locals
Are you reading any literature on climbing? FOTH and Climbing Anchors
Are you doing any other training to improve your climbing? MMA/Crossfit 5-6 times a week
YOUR LEVEL
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Indoor TR grade(you can climb at least 3 routes of this grade)? Never climbed indoors
Indoor Lead grade? see above
Indoor Bouldering grade? see above above
Outdoor TR grade? flashed my 1st 5.9, but a 5.8 last week kicked my ass. Different crags.
Outdoor Lead grade? NA
Outdoor Bouldering grade? NA
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saint_john
Nov 6, 2012, 9:42 PM
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RedRightHand wrote: As a beginner I would find it very helpfull to have some sorth of benchmark to indicate if I have been progressing fast enough. And I'm quite sure I'm not the only one. If everyone could answer the following questions, it will be easy to compare your own rate of progression to that of other climbers. Here's an example with my answers: YOUR TRAINING ------------------- How long have you been climbing? 6 months How many times do you climb a week/month? 2x/week (1 bouldering session and 1 lenghts) How long does an average training session last? 2,5-3 hours Do you take any coaching? No Are you reading any literature on climbing? The Self-Coached Climber Are you doing any other training to improve your climbing? 1x week upper boddy training, running (about 20 miles/week) YOUR LEVEL -------------- Indoor TR grade(you can climb at least 3 routes of this grade)? 5.10a (6a) Indoor Lead grade? NA Indoor Bouldering grade? V3 (6a/6b) Outdoor TR grade? NA Outdoor Lead grade? NA Outdoor Bouldering grade? V2 (5/5+) Please be honest, it's not a competition. Thank you!
You should measure your progress not by grades, but by what you've learned.
Can you properly belay a leader and a top roper?
Can you build safe toprope anchors?
Can you safely clean anchors on a sport route?
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sbaclimber
Nov 6, 2012, 9:56 PM
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saint_john wrote: RedRightHand wrote: As a beginner I would find it very helpfull to have some sorth of benchmark to indicate if I have been progressing fast enough. And I'm quite sure I'm not the only one. If everyone could answer the following questions, it will be easy to compare your own rate of progression to that of other climbers. Here's an example with my answers: YOUR TRAINING ------------------- How long have you been climbing? 6 months How many times do you climb a week/month? 2x/week (1 bouldering session and 1 lenghts) How long does an average training session last? 2,5-3 hours Do you take any coaching? No Are you reading any literature on climbing? The Self-Coached Climber Are you doing any other training to improve your climbing? 1x week upper boddy training, running (about 20 miles/week) YOUR LEVEL -------------- Indoor TR grade(you can climb at least 3 routes of this grade)? 5.10a (6a) Indoor Lead grade? NA Indoor Bouldering grade? V3 (6a/6b) Outdoor TR grade? NA Outdoor Lead grade? NA Outdoor Bouldering grade? V2 (5/5+) Please be honest, it's not a competition. Thank you! You should measure your progress not by grades, but by what you've learned. Can you properly belay a leader and a top roper?
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dagibbs
Nov 6, 2012, 9:58 PM
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My problem with any sort of "at what grade do you do X" is, not just different styles, but that grades are not consistent from place to place. Not just the styles make things feel easier/harder, but the grades are different.
I've climbed in El Potrero Chico, where I was on-sighting sport 5.10b.
There's 5.9s at local crags to where I live that I can't climb on top rope.
At Rumney, I seem to be generally on-sighting 5.8s and below, and leading 5.9s with one to two falls. (I can't really talk about red-pointing them, I don't get back to Rumney often enough to work a route.) I got a clean sport second up a 5.10b, and hang-dogged 2nd up a 5.10d.
The local ones would be on rock I'm familiar with, etc. Shouldn't be hitting something in an unfamiliar style. (Say, Indian Creek splitter cracks, for me.). In fact the limestone at EPC should be the unfamiliar case.
So, I really don't know what to say for what grade I climb at. I have to wonder who's grade are we talking? How stiff?
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cracklover
Nov 6, 2012, 10:33 PM
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Ya, dagibbs, what one can climb is so variable based on style of climbing that it's pretty meaningless to talk about a single number in the abstract. I think it's really only meaningful to give a single number if either you're so well rounded that you climb more or less the same everywhere in every style (which I don't either), or if you specify where it is you're referring to.
GO
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skiclimb
Nov 6, 2012, 11:22 PM
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I can climb anything on the planet. Style is the only limiting factor.
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surfstar
Nov 7, 2012, 12:02 AM
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My climbing grade is an 'F'. Its either Fun or Fail - depends if #s actually matter for you.
Maybe climbers should be mathematicians - they sure seem obsessed with numbers. 
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guangzhou
Nov 7, 2012, 2:40 AM
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RedRightHand wrote: As a beginner I would find it very helpfull to have some sorth of benchmark to indicate if I have been progressing fast enough. And I'm quite sure I'm not the only one. If everyone could answer the following questions, it will be easy to compare your own rate of progression to that of other climbers. Here's an example with my answers: YOUR TRAINING ------------------- How long have you been climbing? 6 months How many times do you climb a week/month? 2x/week (1 bouldering session and 1 lenghts) How long does an average training session last? 2,5-3 hours Do you take any coaching? No Are you reading any literature on climbing? The Self-Coached Climber Are you doing any other training to improve your climbing? 1x week upper boddy training, running (about 20 miles/week) YOUR LEVEL -------------- Indoor TR grade(you can climb at least 3 routes of this grade)? 5.10a (6a) Indoor Lead grade? NA Indoor Bouldering grade? V3 (6a/6b) Outdoor TR grade? NA Outdoor Lead grade? NA Outdoor Bouldering grade? V2 (5/5+) Please be honest, it's not a competition. Thank you!
Climbing over 20 years and climbing harder and harder.
Yesterday, and almost everyday, I not only managed to climb into bed, but also out of bed.
Today, not only did I climb out of bed, but also climb two flights of stairs to reach the library.
Not sure how we compare, but hope this gives you some good benchmarks to set your own personalize climbing goals with.
Emmanuel
Living and rock climbing in Indonesia
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RedRightHand
Nov 8, 2012, 12:43 PM
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I did post this in the Beginners forum for a reason. I think adding criteria for different styles is a little bit overkill in this situation, because most beginner climbers have only climbed few styles.
And I do realise climbing is about having fun, not about constantly comparing to others. It's just nice to know how fellow beginners are doing and how they are experiencing their introduction to the sport.
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dagibbs
Nov 8, 2012, 2:46 PM
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RedRightHand wrote: I did post this in the Beginners forum for a reason. I think adding criteria for different styles is a little bit overkill in this situation, because most beginner climbers have only climbed few styles.
I really wasn't trying to talk about differing styles, so much as the fact that different areas, even in the same style, can have different ratings.
To give another example, there is a local (to me) crag that had its first wave of climbing back in the 80s, all trad, and had routes rated at that time. It has in the last few years enjoyed something of a rennaissance of development (primarily because of the closure of another broad swatch of local climbs), with much of this new development being sport or mixed (bolts, with a couple of gear placements to supplement the bolts). There are new 5.10a routes that I lead with little difficulty, there are old 5.8 routes that I can do clean about half the time. These routes are at the same crag, on the same rock, in the same style.
Basically ratings vary all over the place, so I have real problems with saying I can climb at a particular level, because I may get somewhere else, and find their grades are far stiffer, and not be able to climb at that level. Even if that location has climbs in a style that I'm comfortable with.
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sknowlton
Nov 8, 2012, 3:11 PM
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surfstar wrote: My climbing grade is an 'F'. Its either Fun or Fail - depends if #s actually matter for you.
+1
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kennoyce
Nov 8, 2012, 3:34 PM
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Unfortunately I'm not climbing any grade right now, I'm sitting behind a computer at work, but I'm thinking about that 5.15d I'm going to send some day;)
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cracklover
Nov 8, 2012, 4:56 PM
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RedRightHand wrote: I did post this in the Beginners forum for a reason. I think adding criteria for different styles is a little bit overkill in this situation, because most beginner climbers have only climbed few styles. And I do realise climbing is about having fun, not about constantly comparing to others. It's just nice to know how fellow beginners are doing and how they are experiencing their introduction to the sport.
So basically you're saying that all you really know is your own gym, and maybe a little bit of a local crag. If that's the case, how is posting about that here going to do you any good? Go around asking people in your gym how long they've climbed and how hard they can climb.
Or maybe you thought that anonymous wanking would be more comfortable than approaching real people? OK, then do carry on.
GO
(This post was edited by cracklover on Nov 8, 2012, 4:58 PM)
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abrock5
Nov 8, 2012, 5:23 PM
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There's a big difference between what you project and what you can onsight...so here's my list of both:
-I can onsite rappel 5.14d
-I can redpoint rappel in the 5.15's...usually after only a day's work to figure out the moves.
-I onsighted this sick 5.12 top rope in the gym after only working it for 2 sessions.
-I've watched an Alex Honnold video on YouTube and only had to chalk up twice.
-I don't boulder because it's ridiculous.
Now for my actual climbing grades, not that it matters in the least bit.
-I have lead trad up to 5.9, but if there is much crack climbing involved forget about it.
-I have been on exactly 2 sport climbs in my life and they were both 5.7. I have no idea what my limit is there but it's probably in the 5.9 range.
-I've never bouldered outside the gym, because it scares me. I would rather take a hundred falls on gear than one on a crashpad. I've bouldered v4 at our gym FWIW...which is approximately nothing.
I've been climbing for a year and make it outside 2x per month on a good month. I train on a hangboard like a champion...and I'm not sure it's helped me a single bit. I climbed in a gym at least once per week, up to 11a, until my daughter was born. Arranging my climbing schedule around family time is a 5.16b at least...maybe as tough as "c" on some days.
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jeepnphreak
Nov 8, 2012, 7:04 PM
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YOUR TRAINING
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How long have you been climbing? 18 years
How many times do you climb a week/month? not enough
How long does an average training session last? 6-8 hours some times more
Do you take any coaching? No
Are you reading any literature on climbing? Not currently
Are you doing any other training to improve your climbing? yep more climbing
YOUR LEVEL
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Indoor TR grade(you can climb at least 3 routes of this grade)? 5.fun
Indoor Lead grade? 5.fun same as above
Indoor Bouldering grade? IN dont boulder Im too poor to keep buying crutches for #$%^ uped ankles
Outdoor TR grade? 5.fun
Outdoor Lead grade? 5.fun
Outdoor Bouldering grade? Still dont boulder.
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Fred20
Nov 9, 2012, 8:59 PM
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Progress is progress. I wouldn't compare though I would keep track though of your own progress because there is a nice sense of accomplishment to know that you started X and are now Y.
There are so many factors that effect "ratings" in gyms. There are routes that are impossible for anyone around 5' (mostly ladies) to climb just because the moves are too far apart, yet that same 5' climber is 10x more skilled than me or the climber that is 6'5'' and can reach everything.
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