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verticallaw
Mar 28, 2002, 9:00 PM
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I have been climbing a while and have caught on pretty quick. A friend of mine who has 19 yrs experiance has showed me the ropes and scared the s*&t out of me in the process. I have no problem holding my own at a crag and I have enough brains to know what is out of my ability. My question though is out of all the people that i have met at the gym and have offered to take me out to a "new" crag how do I know if I will learn from them or end up carying them off the rock in a body bag???
Mike
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lostangel
Mar 28, 2002, 9:15 PM
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Well anyone can BS, so watch them in action at the gym, I have never been to a gym, but at least you would get an idea of how well they climb. other than that it's a chance, but hey at least it someone to climb with!
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miagi
Mar 29, 2002, 12:02 AM
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You know im very glad you posted this because no one has ever made a comment like this. Like lostangel said, anyone can BS and act like they know what they are doing.
I think everyone needs to take this precaution of who they are climbing with.
For instance, lets say a beginner doesnt want to look like a fool and have people think he has no clue what he is doing. You ask him if he knows how to belay, and he says yes (even though he is not fully sure) It can happen.
Another thing is that someone might "think" they know what they are doing but have never been corrected before and are passing this knowledge down to you which is potentially dangerous.
The only precautionary measures i think one can take is: Look at what they are doing, if you see anything not the "norm" ask them about it. If it is dredfully wrong ask them how long they have been climbing and questions of that sort. Secondly, look at some online guides to give you some more understanding of the sport like our beloved RC.com. This will help you to learn of the correct procedures and hopefully enable you to see possible wrongdoings of other climbers.
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ponyryan
Mar 31, 2002, 7:10 PM
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Another good idea to add onto these already posted: Try to take multiple people. 4 eyes are better than 2.... Another person might spot a potential problem, or call BS on someone that doesn't know their stuff.
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climbchick
Mar 31, 2002, 8:33 PM
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I like the idea of rounding up several people to go. Someone you trust could stand near the unknown belayer and be ready to grab the rope if the belayer messed up. Or you could hand your belayer a Grigri if you're worried. I know they're not completely foolproof but they do add another measure of security. I had reservations about doing this but now I've decided to get one for those situations because my nerves are shot from climbing at the gym with people that I've just trained to belay a few minutes before.
As for learning from experts -- if someone passes some information on to me that isn't OBVIOUSLY correct or that I don't completely understand, I always check it in one of my books (i.e. Freedom Of The Hills). You could also post it here and be sure of getting plenty of opinions. I agree with the point made above that even people with years of experience could have been doing something wrong all those years and just never been corrected. It's always a mistake to blindly believe anything you're told by anyone. It's also a mistake to memorize techniques or "rules" without fully grasping the concepts behind them. For the most part, if you understand the logic behind something, you'll be able to tell if it's right or wrong.
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wallhammer
Apr 3, 2002, 4:21 AM
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in casual conversation i would find out what routes they have climbed/lead. then check those routes in your guidebook. find one that looks interesting and ask them if they would mind climbing that route again? you would be more than happy to belay/second them. if they stammer around, then they are bullshitters. if they agree, then you should be able to tell (while you are belaying them) how good/safe an actual climber they really are. I suck at lead climbing and am only comfortable at 5.7 and below. you would be suprised at how many climbers i hook up with that brag about leading 5.9 or 5.10 than all of a sudden are having a bad day and cant lead a 5.6 this really bums me out because im trying to improve my climbing ablity by doing it with someone better than myself, and it ends up they are on the same or lower level than me and i end up leading. actions TALK, B.S. walks
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elcapbuzz
Apr 3, 2002, 6:00 AM
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Verticallaw, I think what you're talking about is a "climbing partner".
A guide is generally someone you are paying to teach you.
Ammon
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elcapbuzz
Apr 3, 2002, 7:44 AM
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Oh, Yeeaah.
Miagi, ClimbChick and WallHammer gave some very solid information about ways to feel comfortable with a new climbing partner.
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apollodorus
Apr 3, 2002, 11:50 AM
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This would be a sort of Trial By Fire (for you), but check out their belay when you follow up to it. If it looks sketchy, maybe you want to develop stomach cramps, right then, and rap.
I once climbed with a Marine (U.S. trained in the Art of Staying Alive, as it were....), who thought a single chickenhead was a great belay anchor on the Snake Dike (he went past the bolted belay by 30-50 feet...). This climb is easy, but is WAY exposed, and I figured he was trying to up the rating with this move. This was my first free solo: leading off the chickenhead belay with 1000+ feet of air below.
He later applied this logic to his driving down from Tuolumne to the Valley in his 911 (nice car, by the way, a '76 Anniversary Edition Silver Targa): "It was double line, but I had to go for it. I took a deep breath, punched it, and went around four cars. And then I was free."
I never saw this guy fuque up. He always pulled it off.
When we did the Arches, he went off the North Dome gully descent WAY too early, without ropes. We met up near Astroman. Near the top of the Arches, he pulled a rattlesnake by the tail out of the hole it was trying to go into, swung it around his head, and then slammed it.
Some people are not meant to die. They've got the Edge.
But, I was scared climbing with him, and was glad when he left the Valley and I got to find other people to climb with.
I hope he's still with us.
Off the rock, in sensible surroundings, he was one of the coolest people I'd ever met. But, give him the Edge, and Hoo-Boy! You'd better be right with him, or be scared schnittless.
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gekolimit
Apr 3, 2002, 12:28 PM
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Registered: Jan 20, 2002
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COMMUNICATE. Its always important to talk to new climbing partners in order to build up the trust between eachother and learn or correct eachothers ways....New people, who knows they could be your next best friend....don't skip out on oppertunities to go climbing with people you don't know.
Just remember to talk....and if worst comes to worst you can always leave. Your life comes first!
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verticallaw
Apr 3, 2002, 5:44 PM
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Registered: Mar 21, 2002
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HI all this is great. By the way I was talking about a "partner" but here on the island good climbs are few and far between so sometimes a new partner is "guiding" you to a previously unheard of area. I pour over topo maps of our beautiful west cost and between that, a gps, and a big set of balls we have found some great climbs in the middle of nowhere. That is why I asked this is I have been stuck in the middle of nowhere (hikeing not clibming thank god) with a moron who claimed he knew all about backwoods but when it came down to the crunch was a usefull as tits on a bull. I had to carry him about 6 miles until I reached somwhere to get help. I wouldn't want to do that 5 pitches up a climb and than the hike out.
Thanks for the info!!!!
Mike
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camhead
Apr 3, 2002, 6:04 PM
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Registered: Sep 10, 2001
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If you are at the gym with a prospective climbing partner, just talk to them a bunch. You will get a feel of their experience, and usually your gut will tell you if they know they are legit.
It's the same situation on this site. There are tons of people here giving out info, and you must take it all with a grain of salt. You could be getting advice from a twenty-year big wall vet or a fifteen year old in his bedroom.
No names, though.
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elcapbuzz
Apr 3, 2002, 8:08 PM
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Registered: Aug 24, 2001
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Verticallaw, I still don't think you were being guided. Maybe I have a strong opinion about this because I do guide.
When someone takes me to a new area, I call it leading, me.
Ammon
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