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edge
Jan 31, 2004, 4:04 PM
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A hiker was discovered dead on MT Washington this week (story below) which raises the total of people killed on the mountain and surrounding slopes to somewhere over 130. The combination of easy access, proximity to the ocean, varied technical and non-technical terrain, and position in the path of the jet stream all contribute to the large number of casualties.
Is this the deadliest peak in North America, or are there others? I'm curious, mostly.
Body of Mass. hiker recovered from Mount Washington
PINKHAM NOTCH, N.H. (AP) —
Searchers battling gale-force winds and below-zero temperatures recovered the body of a hiker Thursday on Mount Washington, two days after he apparently fell to his death.
Jason Gaumond, 28, of Southbridge, Mass., was reported missing Wednesday when he did not show up for work. Friends in New Hampshire believed he had gone skiing in Vermont, but the search turned to Mount Washington after Gaumond’s car was found in a parking lot there Thursday morning.
Fish and Game Lt. Douglas Gralenski said Gaumond’s body was found around 3:20 p.m. Thursday, at the base of Yale Gully, a technical climbing area.
"Our working assumption is that he was descending when he fell," Gralenski said. "In all likelihood, he fell sometime during day on Tuesday."
Gaumond was an experienced hiker, Gralenski said, but did not have the necessary equipment for a climb, such as ropes or an ice ax.
Searchers from the U.S. Forest Service, Fish and Game, Appalachian Mountain Club, Mountain Rescue Service and Androscoggin Valley Search and Rescue were forced to concentrate their search below tree line.
In exposed areas Thursday, the wind gusted to 90 mph, driving the wind chill to minus 60.
In more sheltered areas, they still faced "gale force winds," Gralenski said.
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mistymountainhop
Jan 31, 2004, 4:41 PM
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The fact Mr. washington is in the path of 3 weather/storm systems definitely contributes to the extremeness of the weather.
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cologman
Jan 31, 2004, 6:36 PM
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Mt Ranier has its share of accidents. Again access contributes to the high number.
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drkodos
Jan 31, 2004, 6:47 PM
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According to Accidents in North American Mountaineering, the state of Washington has had the most deaths. I could not find a peak by peak breakdown. If they have one, I suspect that Denali would be the deadliest, possible followed by Rainier or Mt Washington.
To me Mt Washington deserves the moniker as the deadliest even if it may not be so statistically. Itcertainly has the highest profile with regards to deaths, and seems to have a higher percentage on non-technical deaths that would not be considered for Accidents.....
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coldclimb
Feb 1, 2004, 6:53 AM
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I dunno about Denali being the deadliest. Check out this excerpt from the link below:
http://www.peakbagger.com/journal/mck29.htm
When I got off the mountain the statistics for climbers were pretty grim; less than a quarter of those attempting the summit had made it--basically, those who had gotten up during May 26-28. However, June must have been an exceptionally good weather month, since by the end of the climbing season the overall success rate was 51%, with 567 out of the total 1109 climbers having summited. This success rate is about average, historically. The British climber who died on May 29th was the only fatality on the mountain this season, not counting a climber who died while crossing a river in the lowlands on his hike out in July. Only one death on McKinley is below the recent average of about three per year.
Not sure how 3 deaths a year compares. Anyone know?
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skiclimb
Feb 1, 2004, 6:32 PM
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Deadliest is a funny statistic...Do you mean total # of deathes? Deaths/ year? Deaths /climber hours?
I don't find that any mountain is the slightest bit deadly....however stupid people are exceptionally deadly as are stupid mistakes by smart people...we have all made a few stupid mistakes so no one is immune to that.
Denali would certainly be higher than Washington in deaths/climber but not sure about deaths per climber hour. Considering most people are up there for 14 to 21+ days per trip.
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xcel360
Feb 1, 2004, 7:24 PM
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Compared to many other mountains in the US, Mt. Washington isn't nearly as deadly as many others. It may see it's fair share of unusual bad weather, which contributes to it being so "deadly", but the other thing you have to factor in is it's traffic. I think statistically speaking you can find more people try to climb it than almost any other mountain in the US (lower 48 ), due to the fact that it's extremely accessible, and so close to many heavily populated areas, like New York City, Boston, and so on.
I certainly would say it's not that difficult, as far as alpine mountaineering goes, and certainly isn't that deadly. I guess because of the above stated reasons, like easy access, it probably sees a high number of unaware or uneducated climbers (and let me clarify...by uneducated I mean uneducated about climbing, not education in general)
<=glen=>
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powrslave
Feb 3, 2004, 3:16 AM
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I am gonna go ahead and throw Longs peak in there. High access, high altitude, nothing but extreme technical routes in the winter (I would consider the Keyhole technical during winter).
Lightning during spring/summer gets a lot of people too. Especially at the Boulderfield highcamp at 12,700 ft.
A lot of idiots die trying to downclimb after noon in rain storms. R.I.P.
I recall that nearly/over 200 people have died on it, but I am not sure.
I saw a girl go through the key hole shivering her ass off in nothing but a tank top and adidas running shorts. No water. Temperature was about 25 - 30ish and with wind. The teeny bopper kids she was with kept pushing her to continue. I am SURE she got hypo.
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deleted
Deleted
Feb 3, 2004, 3:19 AM
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speculate speculate...where are the facts? shut up with out them.
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harrisha
Feb 3, 2004, 3:27 AM
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I'm pretty sure that big ditch out west called the Grand Canyon surpasses them all. I have a book called Death in the Grand Canyon that documents them all. I'll check it and try to get back with the statistics.
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harrisha
Feb 3, 2004, 3:36 AM
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It's definently the ditch. In the book alone there are 550 known fatalities ranging from accidents to suicide to murder. Also two commercial airliners collided over the canyon and that accident prompted the creation of the FAA. One of those planes was a TWA flight and I can't remember the other.
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micahmcguire
Feb 3, 2004, 3:39 AM
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Mt Washington? No way. Yeah it sees its fair share of deaths, but that is because so many unprepared people go up it each year. This is a biased guess, but for most deaths/fewest people I would have to say maybe the Devil's Thumb (but then again everyone's opinion on what makes a mountain dangerous is different). I seem to recall hearing about an unusually high number of overall fatalities on that peak over the years for how infrequently its climbed.
Coldclimb, about Denali, here's another article not so pleasant:
"7th climber in week dies on Mt. McKinley"
Associated Press
ANCHORAGE -- An expedition leader descending Mount McKinley while
roped to two clients plunged to his death yesterday, the National Park
Service said.
It was the seventh death in seven days involving mountaineers on the
20,320-foot peak, North America's tallest.
The Park Service said Terrance "Mugs" Stump, 41, of Sandy, Utah was
presumed dead after he fell into a crevasse when the snow beneath is
feet gave way at 14,400 feet.
The accident happened on a route known as the South Buttress.
John Quinley, a Park Service spokesman in Anchorage, said Stump, a
veteran McKinley guide, was descending with two clients from
California when the man in front was uncertain about the route and
Stump came from behind to check. Quinley said the snow gave way.
Thursday, May 21, page B-5
It can be a pretty mean mountain. Ever read -148 Degrees?
Anyhow, it has good years and bad years. Not long ago I lost three friends on Foraker, all brothers. That whole area is pretty dangerous (especially comared to Mt. Washington).
And the Grand Canyon doesn't count. One need not be climbing to have died there. To die on a peak, one must have climbed at least a bit of it.
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coldclimb
Feb 3, 2004, 6:28 AM
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Ah, I wondered how Mugs died. I had heard it was on a glacier, but didn't know where. Climbed at least one route of his last summer. :( From what I've heard, he would have been an awesome guy to know.
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brianinslc
Feb 4, 2004, 9:59 PM
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I think for the "deadliest" title, you have to consider the ratio of successful summiters versus the # of folks killed.
I'll take Mount St. Elias for a 100, Alex.
Has to be some less known, but tougher climbs, that bust that ratio up.
North Face of Mount Cleveland? Yeah. Mount Cleveland. That's a bad ratio.
Brian in SLC
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dingus
Feb 4, 2004, 10:22 PM
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All of you are so wrong.
Numbers and losses at xxx, 23-25 Nov. '63:
Union Confederate
Effectives 56,359 64,165
Killed 753 361
Wounded 4,722 2,160
Missing 349 4,146
Total Losses 5,824(10%) 6,667(14%)
I think these stats (you'll notice I actually provided the data, unlike, like, everyone else in this thread) are conclusive proof of the deadliest mountain in all of these United States.
DMT
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polarwid
Feb 4, 2004, 10:56 PM
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Which mountain are those stats from, DINGUS?
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brianinslc
Feb 5, 2004, 3:52 PM
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In reply to: Numbers and losses at xxx, 23-25 Nov. '63: Union Confederate Effectives 56,359 64,165 Killed 753 361 Wounded 4,722 2,160 Missing 349 4,146 Total Losses 5,824(10%) 6,667(14%) I think these stats (you'll notice I actually provided the data, unlike, like, everyone else in this thread) are conclusive proof of the deadliest mountain in all of these United States.
Cold Mountain...ha ha...
I dunno. Was just a little hill, across a creek, back in September, 17th if I recall correctly, in '62. Might not a been the deadliest mountain, but, was a purty darn deadly hill. Standing on the bridge and lookin' up, whew...I can't imagine. Especially considering how shallow that creek was up and downstream...
132,000 men. 22,000 dead in a single day. That's 16%.
Don't know if I'da cared to cross that bridge...
Brian in SLC
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dingus
Feb 5, 2004, 4:16 PM
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In reply to: Which mountain are those stats from, DINGUS?
That would Lookout Mountain and Missionary Ridge.
And there's climbing there to boot.
DMT
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dingus
Feb 5, 2004, 4:17 PM
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In reply to: Don't know if I'da cared to cross that bridge... Brian in SLC
I think most climbers would have done their duty, despite the objective hazards.
DMT
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mtnbkrxtrordnair
Feb 5, 2004, 4:27 PM
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Mt. Washington has it's share of fatalities, but they are inflated because the historical death toll includes gonzos who died back in the 1800's riding some crazy cart contraption down the cog railway tracks, a cog railway accident, airplanes that crashed into the mountain, and hikers that walked off the headwall in fog and drowned in the moat behind the snowpack in early summer, and a few heart attacks and ski accidents. A lot of the fatalities had nothing to do with climbing, but I guess deaths from exposure count. Some bodies have never been recovered! What a mess. It must really suck to drown on a 6,000 ft. mountain.
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craggincragin
Feb 5, 2004, 5:17 PM
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In reply to: Mt. Washington has it's share of fatalities, but they are inflated because the historical death toll includes gonzos who died back in the 1800's riding some crazy cart contraption down the cog railway tracks, a cog railway accident, airplanes that crashed into the mountain, and hikers that walked off the headwall in fog and drowned in the moat behind the snowpack in early summer, and a few heart attacks and ski accidents. A lot of the fatalities had nothing to do with climbing, but I guess deaths from exposure count. Some bodies have never been recovered! What a mess. It must really suck to drown on a 6,000 ft. mountain.
I don't believe the question was for deadliest peak in the U.S. directly related to climbing. I'm sure only a small percentage of the deaths in the Grand Canyon are related to climbing, as well as at Lookout Mtn. as Dingus mentioned. Many of the numbers at these locations are "historical death tolls".
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mtnbkrxtrordnair
Feb 5, 2004, 9:53 PM
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I don't believe the question was for deadliest peak in the U.S. directly related to climbing. I'm sure only a small percentage of the deaths in the Grand Canyon are related to climbing, as well as at Lookout Mtn. as Dingus mentioned. Many of the numbers at these locations are "historical death tolls".
You do have a point, however last time I looked the Grand Canyon was the opposite of a mountain.
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micahmcguire
Feb 7, 2004, 8:56 AM
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st elias. not a bad call there brian
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climbforchrist
Feb 7, 2004, 11:27 PM
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Mmm not really sure if there is one. What do you mean by deadly? Mt Washington has its share of deaths, but most are not really climbing related. not to bust anyones bubble but its not much of a climbing challenge by any route.
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polarwid
Feb 7, 2004, 11:49 PM
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polarwid moved this thread from General to Climbing History & Trivia.
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brianinslc
Feb 10, 2004, 3:18 PM
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In reply to: st elias. not a bad call there brian
I dunno. I think Devil's Thumb and Foraker have to be right up there, in terms of successful summits versus fatalities.
We decided against the SE ridge of Foraker in '01. Was bummed to hear about the Strawn bro's in '02. Met Travis and his older bro on Denali in 98, nice fellas, really had their poo wired. Eeek.
Brian in SLC
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rockprodigy
Feb 10, 2004, 9:28 PM
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I think there's only been 4 deaths on Devil's Thumb, so it's probably not a contender. As for successful summits, I bet it's under 50.
Anyone know how many have died on St. Elias? I would bet Forraker has a pretty grim ratio...seems like you hear of more deaths than summits on that bad boy.
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brianinslc
Feb 10, 2004, 10:01 PM
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In reply to: I think there's only been 4 deaths on Devil's Thumb, so it's probably not a contender. As for successful summits, I bet it's under 50.
Hmmm...not a great ratio...1 dead per 12.5 summiting.
In reply to: Anyone know how many have died on St. Elias?
I think surprisingly few. I'm gonna stab a guess that less than 100 folks have summited St. Elias. 20+ ascents with an average of, say, 3 or 4 per. Probably lower. Could be as low as 50 or 60 people.
Was 2 fatalities in '01, if I recall correctly. Another one in '98. I'm guessing there were a couple in the 60's. So, maybe around 5 to 8?
So, might range from 1 in 20 to 1 in 8?
In reply to: I would bet Forraker has a pretty grim ratio...seems like you hear of more deaths than summits on that bad boy.
Yep. Been a bunch over the years, but, I think the peak went for a spell without until '01.
I'll hazard a wild guess of 10. And I'll bet around 150 to 200 ascents. Wild guess.
Grim discussion...
I'll bet Dan Beard's ratio is pretty bad...summiters to fatalities...since both are so low...
Yikes...
Brian in SLC
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micahmcguire
Mar 2, 2004, 3:03 AM
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I won't argue too hard against Foraker. I've personally lost friends up there. However, I think there are far too many successful climbs up there to call it "the deadliest." Its up there though.
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tarp
Mar 2, 2004, 3:27 AM
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In reply to: I won't argue too hard against Foraker. I've personally lost friends up there. However, I think there are far too many successful climbs up there to call it "the deadliest." Its up there though.
Ah, to be 23 and to know so friggen much. I'm only a couple of years younger yet know not to voice my opinion on such weighty matters with all of the truly experienced climbers on this site. Take a break, buckwheat.
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sammatt
Mar 2, 2004, 3:36 AM
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Mount Sanitas, Boulder. Deadly air--filled with the "perfume" of dog shit and bored trophy wives.
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micahmcguire
Mar 2, 2004, 3:37 AM
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;-)
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micahmcguire
Mar 2, 2004, 3:38 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: I won't argue too hard against Foraker. I've personally lost friends up there. However, I think there are far too many successful climbs up there to call it "the deadliest." Its up there though. Ah, to be 23 and to know so friggen much. I'm only a couple of years younger yet know not to voice my opinion on such weighty matters with all of the truly experienced climbers on this site. Take a break, buckwheat.
um, ok asshole. why don't you suck my slurpy brown anus? I don't know what crawled up your ass, but you should get that looked at. How do you figure that my input regarding this issue is invalid because of my age? Go to hell chuffwad
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underfoot
Mar 2, 2004, 3:41 AM
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???
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underfoot
Mar 2, 2004, 3:42 AM
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???
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underfoot
Mar 2, 2004, 3:42 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: I won't argue too hard against Foraker. I've personally lost friends up there. However, I think there are far too many successful climbs up there to call it "the deadliest." Its up there though. Ah, to be 23 and to know so friggen much. I'm only a couple of years younger yet know not to voice my opinion on such weighty matters with all of the truly experienced climbers on this site. Take a break, buckwheat. um, ok asshole. why don't you suck my slurpy brown anus? I don't know what crawled up your ass, but you should get that looked at. How do you figure that my input regarding this issue is invalid because of my age? Go to hell chuffwad
!!!
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micahmcguire
Mar 2, 2004, 3:42 AM
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wink wink
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underfoot
Mar 2, 2004, 3:47 AM
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You must be stuck in the middle of an unending winter. Seek counselling.
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timstich
Mar 2, 2004, 5:31 AM
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In reply to: Mount Sanitas, Boulder. Deadly air--filled with the "perfume" of dog s--- and bored trophy wives.
I hear that's a good bouldering location! Tell me, does the dog sh*t help prevent broken ankles? I figure a 1/4 lb. stool should absorb about .03 Kilo Newtons. Please advise.
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rockprodigy
Mar 2, 2004, 9:01 PM
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In reply to: Ah, to be 23 and to know so friggen much.... Take a break, buckwheat.
I'm only 26, should I take a break too?
e-mail me when I'm old enough to respond:
kiss@myass.com
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polarwid
Mar 2, 2004, 9:14 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I won't argue too hard against Foraker. I've personally lost friends up there. However, I think there are far too many successful climbs up there to call it "the deadliest." Its up there though. Ah, to be 23 and to know so friggen much. I'm only a couple of years younger yet know not to voice my opinion on such weighty matters with all of the truly experienced climbers on this site. Take a break, buckwheat.
Am I old enough to know??? What was your last summit, chuffwad!!!
In reply to: um, ok asshole. why don't you suck my slurpy brown anus? I don't know what crawled up your ass, but you should get that looked at. How do you figure that my input regarding this issue is invalid because of my age? Go to hell chuffwad!!!
MICAH...close to violating the TOS there, but I think I will let this one slide... :wink:
HEY CARP, I mean not so SHARP, I mean...uhhh whatever...
I bet MICAH has summitted more peaks in the last two months than you have in your entire friggin life, and that includes your mama's titties!!!
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micahmcguire
Mar 2, 2004, 11:30 PM
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uproarious laughter, followed by the wailing of guitars!
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rvega
Mar 3, 2004, 12:05 AM
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For clarification...
1) Since when is The Grand Canyon a "peak"
2) Shouldn't it be dealiest in terms of... death/attempts
3) What's a chuffwad?
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micahmcguire
Mar 3, 2004, 2:49 AM
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rvega-
the grand canyon is not a peak, you are right.
yes it should be deaths/attempts
to be honest, I have no idea what a chuffwad is, but it sounded insulting.
TARP, no witty comeback? I didn't think so.
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skypilot
Apr 16, 2004, 6:13 PM
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How about the Deadly Bells or the Maroon Bells. The rugged Elk Mountains have their own book dedicated to just the accidents and deaths that occur there called Falling Season. The Mountains are just choss-piles above High altitude...anyone who has done Pyramid, the Bells, or any other peaks there ought to know how treacherous they can be. Route finding is a huge problem for many, and the fact that everything you touch tumbles.
I think the question here is who is the most ignorant, who is the most careless, and under what circumstances did each result of any mountain occur?
No matter how experienced you are...the mountain will always win....we don't really conquer mountains...we pass through them. Our victory as Alpinists lies within our return to the valley, once atop the mountain we are only half way home. I think a lot about the term "wilderness" and what it means to people, ask you will probably get an answer somewhere along the lines of 'pristine, remote, wild, absent of man'; I think we can get lost in the "wild" in 'wilderness'.
I ask this:
Is our line of life a recreation, a sport, or a risk?
I feel it is a risk that we take. The moment that we lose our fear of what we are doing in the high country, that is the moment we lose our respect for what is possible when climbing mountains.
Sky Pilot
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