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innominato
Feb 3, 2004, 10:56 PM
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Hoy hoy,
I'm wondering what the first sport route was in America...some tell me it was Post-Orgasmic depression, at Pinnacles, CA. Others say it was Chain Reaction, a Monkey Face route, or Watt's Totts at Smith.
Any input is appreciated. When I say sport route, I mean entirely bolt protected, drilled on rappel (whether by hand or with a Bosch), and well-protected.
Word
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brianinslc
Feb 3, 2004, 11:16 PM
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In reply to: Hoy hoy, I'm wondering what the first sport route was in America...some tell me it was Post-Orgasmic depression, at Pinnacles, CA. Others say it was Chain Reaction, a Monkey Face route, or Watt's Totts at Smith. Any input is appreciated. When I say sport route, I mean entirely bolt protected, drilled on rappel (whether by hand or with a Bosch), and well-protected.
Half Dome? Ha ha...
Folks were drillin' on rappel by hand long before the power drill craze.
Methinks the first rap drilled route done with power was at Smith, though. Churning?
Probably a route in the gunks that was "prepared" with pins on rappel...or in the Valley for that matter...
There's probably some bolt ladders which may have been drilled on lead that were subsequently free climbed. Would that count?
Brian in SLC
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drkodos
Feb 3, 2004, 11:19 PM
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Ron Kauk in the Valley, but I forget the route.....
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innominato
Feb 3, 2004, 11:19 PM
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Churning came a bit after the first Dihedrals' routes, I think. I mean the totally strict definition of sport climbing: top-down only, bolts only, and rappel-bolted solely with the intention of climbing the thing safely, and free.
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mbg
Feb 3, 2004, 11:39 PM
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I'm pretty sure it was Revelations at the Christian Brothers area at Smith. It was put up in 1975 by Carpenter and Tyreman.
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rokshoxbkr19
Feb 3, 2004, 11:58 PM
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I am fairly sure the first sport route came before 75
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acw
Feb 4, 2004, 12:42 AM
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People have been rap-bolting and hanging to work out moves since the early days - the 60s or probably even earlier. I wouldn't, however, call the first rap-bolted route the first sport route. In almost any area in the pre-sport days, the earliest rap-bolted routes were considered bad style, and were rarely done by leading climbers of the time.
To qualify as the first sport route, it would need to be bolted on rappel in a manner that reduced risk, and the moves would need to be rehearsed prior to a no-falls ascent. But on top of this, it would also need to represent a conscious decision to move away from traditional ethics for the sake of pushing standards higher. This is really where sport climbing came from - the desire to push standards higher in a more-controlled environment than traditional ethics allowed. Only later did the concept of "easy sport routes" come into being.
The first routes that I'm aware of that met these criteria were Watts Tots and Chain Reaction, done a couple weeks apart in February 1983.
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fredbob
Feb 4, 2004, 12:54 AM
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There are great many sport routes that for various reasons have been (and still are being) bolted from the ground up. So the restriction of only rap bolted routes seems kinda out of touch.
There are also a few pure bolted routes that were established in the 1960 and early 70s that certainly qualify (very closely spaced bolts) as "sport routes" and are treated as such today. However, the term didn't come into use (and these types of routes were not really distinguished from other bolted face climbs) until the later part of the 1980s. Some all bolt routes were established in the 1970s on rap, but because of the run outs between the bolts are not sport climbs.
If you were to conclude anything from this, is that the dividing line between sport and trad is fuzzy at best, and really a continuum. What would you call SW Corner route on Headstone Rock in Josh? BTW it was established in 1958!
In reply to: To qualify as the first sport route, it would need to be bolted on rappel in a manner that reduced risk, and the moves would need to be rehearsed prior to a no-falls ascent. But on top of this, it would also need to represent a conscious decision to move away from traditional ethics for the sake of pushing standards higher. This is really where sport climbing came from - the desire to push standards higher in a more-controlled environment than traditional ethics allowed. Only later did the concept of "easy sport routes" come into being.
Quite true (except for having to be bolted on rap). But since easy sport routes are now intregal to modern sport climbing, the definition you propose has changed too.
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scracus
Apr 16, 2004, 2:59 PM
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Christian Griffith's routes in Colorado were some of the first if not the first sport routes: Desdiachado. Upon returning from a trip to France Christian was enlightened by the bolting methods of Marc LeMenestral and Jean Babtiste Tribout. I"m not sure from memory but "Rainbow Wall", in Eldo Canyon was an early bolted route as well.
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superdiamonddave
Apr 16, 2004, 3:03 PM
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According to the latest issue of Rock & Ice and to repeat what acw said, It is "Watts Tots" 5.12b at Smith Rocks.
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climbingstud
Apr 17, 2004, 7:28 AM
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In reply to: Hoy hoy, Others say it was Chain Reaction, a Monkey Face route, or Watt's Totts at Smith. Word |
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zsoltmozes
Apr 17, 2004, 5:30 PM
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I have no idea tell you the truth ....i'm from Hungary ...In reply to: do it,or not ...there is no try . |
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coldclimb
Apr 18, 2004, 7:08 AM
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coldclimb moved this thread from Sport Climbing to Climbing History & Trivia.
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rockitjeff
Apr 19, 2004, 3:37 AM
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as per fredbob's reply..
j long et al rap bolted duck soup on suicide around '73?
but the bolts are far enuff apart that it's sporty, not sport
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bobd1953
Apr 19, 2004, 3:49 AM
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In reply to: Christian Griffith's routes in Colorado were some of the first if not the first sport routes: Desdiachado. Upon returning from a trip to France Christian was enlightened by the bolting methods of Marc LeMenestral and Jean Babtiste Tribout. I"m not sure from memory but "Rainbow Wall", in Eldo Canyon was an early bolted route as well.
That's not true. The first sport routes had to be in Garden of the Gods. The first areas in the US to embraced the sport-climbing ethic were Smith Rocks, Shelf Road and the San Luis Valley and the year would be 1984.
Rainbow Wall was an old aid route freed by Bob Horan, not CG.
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jv
Apr 19, 2004, 4:39 AM
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In reply to: as per fredbob's reply.. j long et al rap bolted duck soup on suicide around '73? but the bolts are far enuff apart that it's sporty, not sport
Marty Woerner was the first ascensionist, in '72 I think. I'm not certain about the style it was put up, but I think it was from the ground up. I think what you are referring to is the name change. Marty named it Tyrannosaurous rex, or some variation on that. After climbing it with ease, the locals nicknamed it Duck Soup, and it stuck.
JV
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smithclimber
Apr 19, 2004, 5:43 AM
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In reply to: I might be wrong but isnt Chain Reaction the Overhanging arete in the Dihedrals? :? Just wondering.
Yes
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rockitjeff
Apr 20, 2004, 3:08 AM
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Hey JV.. I could be wrong… but isn’t the Marty Woerner route the 5.11/ 2 pitch ... Rebolting Development. aint got a guidebook handy, so going on memory..
or maybe you are right and Largo said "duck soup". but i used to recall it was a rap route. fredbob would know
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rockprodigy
Apr 20, 2004, 3:32 AM
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What esteemed company!!
I think many of you are failing to clue into Mr. Watts' most important point, and that is, that the first sport route should be a "paradigm shift", in order to qualify as a sport route. The climber should have had the goal of creating a route that is difficult for the sake of difficulty, not to go anywhere in particular, and the protection placed for utilitarian purposes, only, without thoughts of boldness.
Any route that goes to the top of something, or continues past the difficult climbing would have to be disqualified.
It is certainly an un-answerable question, though.
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jv
Apr 20, 2004, 4:04 AM
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In reply to: Hey JV.. I could be wrong… but isn’t the Marty Woerner route the 5.11/ 2 pitch ... Rebolting Development. aint got a guidebook handy, so going on memory.. or maybe you are right and Largo said "duck soup". but i used to recall it was a rap route. fredbob would know
The '93 guide lists Marty Woerner for the FA in 1971. I don't think it was a rap route. He was following the faint orange water streak in 'no man's land' between Surprise and Revelation.
The Rebolting FA went to D. Wert, Mike Kaiser and G. Bender, October 1971. I was unaware that anything had been rap bolted at Tahquitz/Suicide that long ago. Seems like that would have warranted a comment in the history section.
JV
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dynoguy
Apr 20, 2004, 4:29 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Hoy hoy, Others say it was Chain Reaction, a Monkey Face route, or Watt's Totts at Smith. Word I might be wrong but isnt Chain Reaction the Overhanging arete in the Dihedrals? :? Just wondering.
Yes Chain Reaction is in the Dihedrals. Someday...
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nealric
Apr 20, 2004, 5:13 AM
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In reply to: The first sport routes had to be in Garden of the Gods.
I climb in the garden quite a bit, and while it is mostly bolted (or pin drilled), I consider only a handful of routes there as realy sport. When you are 30ft runout over a drilled pin from the 1960s you are NOT sport climbing.
Most of the truly sport routes at the garden went up in the early 80s along with the main thrust of the sport climbing boom.
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bobd1953
Apr 20, 2004, 6:45 AM
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In reply to: Most of the truly sport routes at the garden went up in the early 80s along with the main thrust of the sport climbing boom.
I know, along with Mark Rolofson, I did the first ascent of them.
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rockprodigy
Apr 20, 2004, 3:07 PM
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In reply to: I climb in the garden quite a bit...Most of the truly sport routes at the garden went up in the early 80s along with the main thrust of the sport climbing boom.
You might want to figure out who some of these guys are before you start giving them the history lesson!
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vivalargo
May 3, 2004, 10:20 PM
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Duck Soup was thought by locals to be a somewhat needless climb since by the time Marty W. put it up (on the lead), there was various girdle traverses that had been done on the Weeping Wall. It got to the point that folks were going up and spending all day on this 250 high slab, climbing all over the place, climbing anywere by just clipping into bolts on existing routes and movering left or right or up and down. In fact you can climb every inch of this slab a zillion different was so to sandwich in Duck Soup seemed needless--but it's still a fine climb, as is anything on that slab.
Reboltng Development is on the buttress to the right and is run out as hell and prety technical. If you want to find out how good folks were in the early 70s (first ascent, '71), put on a pair of old Red PAs and take shot at Rebolting Development--even with a top rope. EBs made it 5.11, and sticky rubber made it 5.11 minus, but in the old shoes it had to be close to 5.12, and terrifying.
JL
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