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mauta
May 3, 2002, 12:46 PM
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Hi,
What do you think about the ultrafamous picture of Maurice Herzog, taken by Louis Lachenal, at the summit(?) of Annapurna, in 1950.
Herzog stands both hands raised with a french flag attached to his piolet, without wearing gloves (a fact that eventually costed him his fingers....).
However, as it is clearly appreciable, HE IS NOT STANDING AT THE SUMMIT.
How close to the summit you must be to claim the summit??
I DO NOT DOUBT about the french's summit of Annapurna in 1950, but this photo allways seemed suspicious for me.
What do you think??
JUAN
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polarwid
May 8, 2002, 8:31 PM
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Do you have a link to this photo? That way we can all take a look and decide for ourselves.
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bradhill
May 9, 2002, 4:14 PM
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bradhill
May 9, 2002, 4:23 PM
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On peaks of that size, or anywhere where it is very cold and there is quite a lot of snow, it is often quite inadvisable to stand directly on the highest point you can see. The top 150' or more of a big mountain may not be rock at all, but just a GIGANTIC CORNICE. (find a picture of Mts Deborah or Huntington) You don't want to be above the fracture line of those buggers.
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mauta
May 11, 2002, 4:00 PM
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Thanks Brad for putting the picture in your post!! nice job...
I understand your point about the eventual danger of going to the true highest point. But where the limit is???
Not an easy question....Cerro Torre and his famous "hongo" at the summit is a perfect example. Can you claim a valid ascent without climbing it?
Returning to the Himalayas, for instance, there is a famous climber whose name is Fausto De Stefani. He has summitted 13 of the 14 8000 peaks, having only Lhotse to complete the list.
He has attempted it in 1997, and claimed the ascent. However, a party that really reached the true summit of Lhotse some days after, find out that he has not made it to the summit. When asked about this, Fausto the Stefani answered something like this (i do not remember his exact words, tough):
"Given the weather's conditions of that day, it was very risky to go higher. So, for that day (10/15/97), i was in the summit"
According to me, this is nonsense. And the climbing community does not count his ascent as valid neither.
What do you think?
[ Este Mensaje fue editado por: mauta el 2002-05-11 09:02 ]
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passthepitonspete
May 11, 2002, 5:49 PM
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Of course Herzog isn't standing on the summit.
This is because he probably did not REACH the summit!
I highly recommend you read TRUE SUMMIT by David Roberts, which explores the probability that Herzog lied.
Isn't it interesting that the greatest selling mountaineering book in history may be based on a lie?
Cheers,
Pete
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bradhill
May 13, 2002, 2:28 PM
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It certainly is a less convincing summit photo than, say, those taken by Hermann Buhl on his solo FA of Nanga Parbat, where you have a view of the surrounding terrain that is verifiably possible only from the summit.
I read Annapurna, but don't remember if there were other summit shots that had a more evidentiary quality to them.
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maddie
May 17, 2002, 10:03 AM
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But is standing on the summit really the ULTIMATE goal? I mean coming back alive, coming back as friends, coming back with all your fingers and toes, coming back with a summit- in that order.
Definatly not any reason to lie about an ascent!
Im sure there are many other untruthful summits, because i was reading an article about 2 guys who got stuck in an ice cave for 5 days on Mt Cook (NZ) and one of them suggested to the other that they lie about them reaching the summit. There has been other people i have read about under suspician as to whether they truly summited as well.
I cant understand why mountaineers would lie about such an event!?
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interruptor
Jul 15, 2002, 6:20 PM
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unfortunatly, a climber that climbs the everest, for example (and this one is probably the WORST example of all), is granted for life. He can get a lot of money if he gets in the conferences circuit or if he has a mountain guides company or something. Besides, what a great subject to write a book about...
I read an article about a climber (not gonna mention who), that, acording to an american expedition, was brought down instead of coming by his own feet, and would probably have died if not helped. He lied about this, claiming that the americans offered themselfs to walk with him to ABC, not really helping him. When he got back to his country he was received as a hero by a crowd of 200 000 persons, and is probably making one hell of a living... I'm not taking sides on this one, as the americans might be lying to, but there sure are a lot of reasons for doing so. A climber that has a big sponsor also feels the obligation to get to the top no matter what... if he doesn't... why not lie about it???
If you think about it, it's not that hard to even fool yourself:
"Hey, I made it almost to the summit. It must have been just about the same as summiting it... nobody has to know..."
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