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rvega
Sep 9, 2003, 12:18 AM
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Lactic acid?
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rvega
Sep 9, 2003, 12:24 AM
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I give up. Never climbed that climb (12b!). But hey I tried. Still gonna get me one of those new guides for my New Years trip.
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curt
Sep 9, 2003, 12:27 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: I'll say the route name derives from LSD? You are going to have to do a lot better than that.
Randy seems to be a real stickler for legalistic detail here. And, I've already bought enough of his guidebooks in the past to put all his current and future children through college. Alright, back to the drawing board then. Hehe.
Curt
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alpnclmbr1
Sep 9, 2003, 12:52 AM
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first thought would have had to of been that jb was frying.
next would be someone took acid to the crack in the form of pin scars prior to the fa.
third would have to be that you will "fry" if you get on it anytime but during the winter.
admittedly, these are long shot guesses, but what the heck.
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thegreytradster
Sep 9, 2003, 12:53 AM
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What threw me is that Desert Shield is the only 12d (in Randys' old book) that normal people would consider in walking distance from Hidden Valley, (CG anyway)
However Arid Piles would seem a short walk to someone wandering around on acid.
So a wild guess: Discovered by someone while wandering around on acid?
Bachar TRed and then later led it.
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fredbob
Sep 9, 2003, 6:19 PM
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People seem to be zeroing in on this:
In reply to: I'll say the route name derives from LSD?
In reply to: So a wild guess: Discovered by someone while wandering around on acid?
In reply to: first thought would have had to of been that jb was frying.
All true; I will declare all 3 of you "winners," though no one really nailed the "Story" on its head. PM me your addresses and I will send you each a copy of the guide when it comes out.
Actually on the day The Acid Crack was "discovered", about half of people in HVCG were frying. 2 Josh locals had scored about 100 hits of Purple Dragon (blotter), which was quickly disbursed around. Needless to say, there was a lot of wandering around in the desert that day. One group of about 4 or 5 climbers wandered out toward Arid Piles and found this incredible crack route. It was climbed later that season by Bachar who led the route about a year afterwards.
Though Acid Crack is most often top roped, it is a rarely done and very demanding (though short) lead. It starts as overhanging fingers and gets thinner, with the crux involving awkward liebacking moves with thin stoppers for protection. Since it faces southwest and sits high in a sheltered location, it is a great choice for cold days.
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alpnclmbr1
Sep 9, 2003, 9:21 PM
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Hey Randy, that would be pretty cool, although I hardly feel I deserve it. Thanks!
A little historical info I found on rec.climbing:
In reply to: (Snip) [obligatory confession, and straying further from original thread ahead] Acid Crack was first free climbed [That is, the first on-site, no-falls, flash ascent of Acid Crack was made] with a top rope to protect the climber, but only after it had been altered by an ascent on aid using pitons. We called it Sweet Dreams, A2. Had no idea that people were trying to climb that thing free. Most subsequent ascents of Acid Crack have involved aid of one form or another. :) And no, I've never climbed at Josh, but I've read a lot about it. Brutus |
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rvega
Sep 9, 2003, 10:48 PM
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Well even though I'm the only person who didn't win, I'm not too bumbed cause my boyfriend reminded me that we just bought that guide. However, I was seriously led astray by the reply to the first LSD suggestion. Cheers. See you in JT this coming winter.
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rockitjeff
Sep 9, 2003, 11:59 PM
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damn.. sounds like I missed a great weekend out at JT back in the day....
and since nobody is biting on my "Speaking of obscure early guidebooks, can anybody besides fredbob tell me who authored the “Toad’s Guide”, when it was penned and to what climbing area? "
Just trivia FYI; a youthful guidebook writer Randy Vogel handwrote about 20 pages of new route info from '72- '76 or so to suppliment the original John Wolfe guidebook which was worthless at the time (it had maybe 2 5.9's? Waterchute and Orphan, I recall....no 5.10's..) .. so this 20 scrawled pages was the Toad's Guide.
um, fredbob. who or what the hell is the Toad?
I mean.. I knew The Troll (where IS Kelly?), knew The Hand (guy with the extra large paw), knew the Frog (is Ray still making gear?), and heck- even knew the ORGINAL Fish. (that be Jessica). Know no Toad, tho. Except maybe the guy who Mr. Toads's Wild Ride is named after. And age has made him into a sage and an inspiration to all aging oldsters..
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fredbob
Sep 10, 2003, 4:48 PM
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In reply to: um, fredbob. who or what the hell is the Toad?
The Toads were sorta a non-climbing group, like The Stonemasters, but rather than being top level hot shots setting new standards, were sorta the B-Team. More of a joke than anything, though they did produce one newsletter (totally a fake; talk about creative writing) in order to get into the AAC's list of climbing organizations (AAC wanted to see a copy of the "club's" newsletter).
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brutusofwyde
Sep 12, 2003, 12:54 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: I can't find anything earlier than Zigzag either. However, I think the early climbing days in JT were never documented. And what an awful first choice for first documented route. ZigZag? Almost anything else in the area would have been a better choice.
Ya gotta be kidding! that second pitch is one of the wildest, best chimneys I've ever climbed. (of course, it was climbed at a later date, but still...]
Brutus
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fredbob
Jan 9, 2004, 6:51 PM
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Everything You Know Is Wrong?
The first recorded route at Joshua Tree was called Tommy's Terror on Intersection Rock, first climbed in 1949. It is likely that routes predated this. By 1954, there were about 20-25 routes established in Josh. Orphan (5.9) on The Old Woman was climbed free as early as Fall of 1954. In fact, most of the obvious crack routes in Hidden Valley had been climbed by the mid to late 1950s, and anything that was 5.9 or easier had been done free. Right On (5.6) on Saddle rocks was climbed as early as 1956, but probably earlier. Unconfirmed rumor (via Mike Loughman) is that Robbins free soloed Lower Right Ski Track (10b) in 1954. I asked Royal about this, but he has no specific memory of particular routes at Josh.
Nearly all FA and FFA info dating from the 1960s is likely wrong. Climbers even first visited Josh in April of 1936 (before it was designated a National Monument). But most activity dates from 1949. Many of the best climbers in the U.S. lived in So Cal during the 1950s and most climbed at Josh a least a few times. I haven't noticed any gravitational anomalies at Josh that would explain why otherwise solid 5.9/10 climbers would be reduced to struggling up 5.5.
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curt
Jan 9, 2004, 7:32 PM
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Randy,
Your post doesn't surprise me at all. Do you intend to document some of the above (i.e. who did the FA of Tommy's Terror) and the other early routes you just found out about?
Curt
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jt512
Jan 9, 2004, 7:38 PM
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In reply to: I haven't noticed any gravitational anomalies at Josh that would explain why otherwise solid 5.9/10 climbers would be reduced to struggling up 5.5.
That observation constitutes prima facie evidence of a gravitational anomaly.
-Jay
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fredbob
Jan 10, 2004, 3:44 AM
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In reply to: Your post doesn't surprise me at all. Do you intend to document some of the above (i.e. who did the FA of Tommy's Terror) and the other early routes you just found out about?
I started doing a lot of research into this because I wanted to include a nice history section in the new guides (and prevent the further propagation of the erroneous "history" we have been reading for the last 30+ years). Though I am still researching this (and still getting new info), the guide needed to get finished (which it is). I may publish something further (more detailed) when warranted.
Vol 1 will have a pretty detailed history (about 12K words) of Josh climbing (covering 1936 to 1978/9). Vol 2 will have a section that covers 1979 to present (I haven't started on that yet). FA info in the guide itself has been changed too to reflect latest research.
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brutusofwyde
Jan 11, 2004, 8:14 PM
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In reply to: And what an awful first choice for first documented route. ZigZag? Almost anything else in the area would have been a better choice.
Dunno about that, Crotch. The second pitch (which was climbed later) is one of of my favorite routes in the monument.
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curt
Jan 21, 2004, 5:23 AM
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OK Randy, a JT trivia question for you:
What is the only place in the Park / Monument that John Gill has bouldered? Good luck. :lol:
Curt
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rockprodigy
Jan 22, 2004, 12:18 AM
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I'm not criticizing your book at all, I just have an honest question.
If you know a route is "really 12d" even though the guidebook calls it 12b/c, why don't you call it 12d? Is the tradition of the area, or your preference, that the book always show the original grade given by the first ascentionist?
I think most people expect to be sandbagged at JTree, so are you just keeping up the tradition?
Will the new volumes maintain all the current ratings, or has there been some revisionism? Don't tell me you honestly think Spider Line is 11c....
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fredbob
Jan 22, 2004, 5:06 AM
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In reply to: I'm not criticizing your book at all, I just have an honest question. If you know a route is "really 12d" even though the guidebook calls it 12b/c, why don't you call it 12d? Is the tradition of the area, or your preference, that the book always show the original grade given by the first ascentionist?
I am not sure to which route you are referring, but to answer your question (which is premised on several false assumptions):
Often when routes are first reported to be included in a guide, they may not have been repeated or done enough for any concensus rating to be formed. Certainly, I have not done all the routes in the Park (maybe 1,700 or so). So..i, I report the route as graded or described by the FA party. Sometimes subsequent parties find the rating soft or stiff. Over time a concensus forms and ratings may be adjusted (up or down) in new editions.
The new guide has many changes in ratings, descriptions, etc as new information has become available to me. Since it has been over 10 years since the last guide, a route may be currently rated 12d, but reported as 12b/c in the 1992 edition. For this reason, you may find ratings in the Classics guide (published in 1997) at variance from the 1992 edition.
The new guides will have over 2,200 new routes in it. No other climbing area has this type of route expansion and it is not possible to confirm all ratings prior to publishing info on them. Still, there are few examples of real sandbagging.
Also, Josh ratings are stiffer than some areas (and softer than others). The important thing is that they be somewhat consistent. Rating is not science but subjective opinion.
In reply to: I think most people expect to be sandbagged at JTree, so are you just keeping up the tradition?
No, but ratings have seen "grade inflation" over recent years, perhaps as a result of unreasonable expectations formed by new gym climbers or those who only have been to the local sport crag. Actually, even at Josh, ratings have been adjusted upward so as to be more in sync with other climbing areas.
In reply to: Will the new volumes maintain all the current ratings, or has there been some revisionism? Don't tell me you honestly think Spider Line is 11c....
Ratings have been widely adjusted to be more consistent, but there will always be routes that will be perceived as sandbagged. And yes, Spider Line is 11c (IMO). But Desert Shield is more like 13b.
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drkodos
Jan 22, 2004, 5:09 AM
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Eagerly awaiting its publication, and can't wait to read more than just routes and ratings!
Thanks for the efforts.
Now, get back to work! :wink:
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sickofla
Jan 22, 2004, 5:44 AM
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....
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tanslacks
Jan 22, 2004, 7:19 AM
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Hi Rockitjeff, Kelly is alive and well (I cannot say where, shhhh.) so is Sutton, Clark, Judson and many others from the charthouse of the day. I somehow feel we must have met?
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socalclimber
Jan 22, 2004, 12:57 PM
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Sutton is living in TooHelluRide CO.
Robert
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rockprodigy
Jan 22, 2004, 11:47 PM
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Please don't take it the wrong way...I'm not criticizing, I'm just curious. I was refering to your post on the first page:
In reply to: BZZZT. Desert Shield is neither a crack nor 12d (maybe 13b). In reply to: I heard Kauk free'd "Brown Out" at 12d, don't know if it ever ended up in a guide. BZZZT. Good guess though, cause it is 12d thin crackish route (even though rated only 12b/c in the guide).
I understand that certain routes don't get confirmed before a book goes to print. What do these numbers mean anyway?...just stuff to argue about on the approach.
As for Spider Line, I watched an acquaintance of mine (a 14b sport climber who has done Equinox) get spanked on it 4 times in a row...he had RP'd it before, but still finds it hard every time. And I thought I was the one having a bad day...we must be missing the key beta....
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