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sinorock
Feb 26, 2004, 5:50 PM
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When was the dynamic rope invented?
Americans were the first ones to use nylon ropes, as army surplus. Steck introducted the nylon rope to Europe in 1949. But after this, I can find any information about the development of dynamic rope. Is that true that dynamic rope was used in the late 60's in the Yosemite Valley? Which company was the first maker?
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olderic
Feb 26, 2004, 6:23 PM
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In reply to: When was the dynamic rope invented? Americans were the first ones to use nylon ropes, as army surplus. Steck introducted the nylon rope to Europe in 1949. But after this, I can find any information about the development of dynamic rope. Is that true that dynamic rope was used in the late 60's in the Yosemite Valley? Which company was the first maker? |
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sinorock
Feb 26, 2004, 6:38 PM
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Yes, I do mean the kern/mantle construction. The ropes in the fifties, as I carefully studied Chris Bennington's photos from that era, were not constructed in kern/mantle way. It was just twisted just like any sailing ropes.
Now I would like to pin down when exactly was the fist time that people started using dynamic ropes.
Interestingly enough, at late as 1990, the Russians didn't use dynamic ropes. Because Anatoli Boukreev visited America in 1990, He wrote in his book "Above the Clouds" that it was his first time to appreciate the dyanmic rope for climbing.
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curt
Feb 26, 2004, 6:45 PM
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To get the right responses to your question, it would help if you used the correct terminology. As has already been pointed out, nylon ropes before those of kernmantle construction were dynamic ropes.
What you want to know is when kernmantle ropes were first used, not when dynamic ropes were first used--right? Assuming that's the case, Edelweiss invented the first kernmantle rope in 1953.
Curt
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rgold
Feb 26, 2004, 7:10 PM
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Since all ropes (including so-called static ones) stretch, they are all dynamic. So behind the given unanswerable question are two possible tractable ones: (1) When were kernmantel ropes first made available for climbing? (2) When were ropes designed to achieve specifically stated maximum impact loads under climbing-fall conditions introduced? I don't know the answer to either question, but I think that the original kernmantel ropes were not designed to meet any specific maximum impact standard.
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curt
Feb 26, 2004, 7:15 PM
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Rich,
My answer above relates to your first tractable question, and comes from the Edelweiss web site.
Curt
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csoles
Feb 26, 2004, 7:32 PM
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You mean Edelrid.
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vertical-rockrat
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Feb 26, 2004, 7:44 PM
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Do you mean Dynamic as in the Dynamic rope we use now days that Bluewater and all the others create with a core and woven outer sheeting? And i will disagree that a Static rope is dynamic, a static line is designed for friction not impact that is why the military uses them for repelling all the time.
And static is defined by Webster's Dicitonary as " exerting force by reason of weight alone without motion" when used as a adjative which is how it is used here.
Dynamic "of or relating to physical force or energy" when used as an adjative thus a fall.
So i would assume his question is in referance to the style of rope we climb on today which has a core and outer sheath.
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sinorock
Feb 26, 2004, 8:15 PM
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I didn't expect to read you guys argue on and on about the difference between a "static" rope and a "dyanmic" rope. What is wrong here? Suddenly all the climbers cry for a re-defination or a re-assurance of our knowledge of what a dynamic rope means.
Nylon is a material stretches under load. The elongation of a nylon strand may well exceed 20% in very high load. The elongation of the nylon fiber absorbs energy. "Perlon" is just a commerical name of nylon that used in Europe. I welcome the discussion on materials, But it is not the point here.
Let us go back to the original question:
:o :o :o When was the kern/mantle nylone rope, aka, the dynamic rope first invented?
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curt
Feb 26, 2004, 8:34 PM
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In reply to: You mean Edelrid.
No. I mean Edelweiss, as here:
http://www.climbing-ropes.co.uk/edelweiss_ropes.asp
Of course, I have no way of knowing if Edelweiss is correct in their assertion. If Edelrid made a kernmantle climbing rope prior to 1953, can you provide any documentation? Thanks.
Curt
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sinorock
Feb 26, 2004, 8:39 PM
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Edelweiss claimed that they made the first kern/mantle rope in 1953.
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csoles
Feb 26, 2004, 8:48 PM
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Hmm, used to have a better chronology but can't find it.
Just this for now:
http://tinyurl.com/2v97h
Sorry Sino, it's you who confused the issue by insisting on using the wrong terminology. Kernmantle does not equal dynamic.
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slcliffdiver
Feb 26, 2004, 9:11 PM
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Slick bit of advertising. Eldrid states they were the first to use the term kermantle without stating they were the first to make kermantle ropes. It may be truthful but leaves it up to the readers imagination to possibly assume they were the first to make kermantle ropes. I grew up in the DC area and paid attention to politics for a while. The lesson for the day is no matter how much it sounds like companies/politicians did or will do something by allusion it's unlikely they did it or will do it if they don't come right out and say it.
I'm not faulting Eldrid for what they said I just found what they said and didn't say very interesting.
I'm guessing sinonrock is looking for the first dynamic kernmantle rope now not the first dynamic rope.
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sinorock
Feb 27, 2004, 3:51 AM
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Interesting, it gets more and more interesting now.
Both Edelweiss and Edelrid claimed that they are the first one. I just emailed both companies and asked them which one was the real first. I will keep you guys updated once I hear from them.
Here are the web pages that they make such claims.
http://www.edelweiss-ropes.com/anglais/intro.html
http://www.edelrid.de/en/kat/uid_kategorien/0000115/id_matchcode/hk_unternehmen/bop/0/chksum/f551e7caf3fdf8c2e9007716587bbc63/beetools.html
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slcliffdiver
Feb 27, 2004, 8:53 AM
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In reply to: Both Edelweiss and Edelrid claimed that they are the first one.
First a back peddle and an apology to Edelrid. Edelrid is a climbing company not a politician or an oil/tabbaco company and I'm guessing they just used unclear language and there is actual contention about who invented the kernmantle rope first.
However the site doesn't "necessarily" say they were the first ones to develop the kernmantle rope.
EdelridIn reply to: The kernmantel construction, first used by EDELRID in the fifties is still the basis of EDELRID climbing ropes today and is also used increasingly in industry. This revolutionary construction has proved suitable for other fields of application as well. Even EDELRIDs term Kernmantel was adapted by many important languages and their standards.
The first statement "can be read" as [the "type" of kernmantel construction first used by Edelrid in the fifties] not necessarily that they invented or used the first kernmantel rope. I'm not great with punctuation so the placement of the comma could change the meaning slightly in a way I don't understand but if I heard this in a speech I wouldn't automatically assume they invented the Kernmantel rope.
The second statement just says they coined the term kernmantel.
Combining statements that both can be interpreted in a way and or can imply the same thing is a time honered way for politicians and advertisers to make you believe something that isn't true without "lying". I reallly doubt it's the case here but it for me these statements still provide a good example of one of many possible tricks to watch out for now that it's an election year here in the good old USA.
I'm not sure if the writer; one wrote unclearly as to how I read, two my understanding of punctuation is lacking or three writer on the Eldrid site was crafty. I'm guessing it is either one or two.
EDELWEISSIn reply to: Then in 1953 EDELWEISS innovation resulted in thé first "kernmantel" rope, i.e. a rope made of separate core and sheath. This construction is now used for ail mountaineering ropes. 1953 Launched the first Kernmantle Rope
About the only interpretation of "launched" I can figure is introduced it to the market.
From the all of the above statements I'm still not sure who "finalized" the "invention" of the kernmantel rope, if both companies had a hand in it or if there is true contention. I'm looking forward to hearing the responses from the companies.
Anyway welcome to my head aren't you sorry you stopped by :wink: At least I'm also very frustrating to salesmen and others who try to use slight of word to sneak things by me. I got a car salesman who was working very hard to deceive me so flustered he deducted the value of my trade in twice :D
You can yawn now. I'm sure my fascination with how advertisers/politicians use words makes me a super geek I just don't know what type of geek to label myself as.
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sinorock
Feb 27, 2004, 2:56 PM
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Hi, folks,
Here are Replies from both companies. Somehow, the replies are quite moderate, as compared to their very sure claims on the website.
====================================
1. Edelweiss:
Subject: RE : which one?
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 12:29:05 +0100
From: "info" [info@edelweiss-ropes.com]
Hello,
I wasn't born at that time and I have no documents from this period
left at Edelweiss. I just rely on what "elderly" people have told me.
If Edelrid believes they were the first, I'll leave this "first" to
them.
Kind regards.
Philippe
info@edelweiss-ropes.com
===============================================
2. Reply from Edelrid:
From: "Fischer" Add to Address Book
Edelrid created the description "Kernmantelseil" in the 60ies.
(Information of one of our technical manager who works a long time
already for Edelrid)
In the 70ies "Kermantelseil" has been standardized as official
description.
Best regards
YOUR EDELRID-TEAM
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slcliffdiver
Feb 27, 2004, 5:22 PM
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Interesting. Thanks for posting the responses.
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jgill
Mar 3, 2004, 4:11 AM
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As for nylon ropes in general, I think perhaps Pierre Chevalier introduced them into climbing about 1943. But I might be wrong. I don't know when the US Army began using them, during WWII. 8)
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timstich
Mar 3, 2004, 4:50 AM
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In reply to: As for nylon ropes in general, I think perhaps Pierre Chevalier introduced them into climbing about 1943. But I might be wrong. I don't know when the US Army began using them, during WWII. 8)
No doubt on those new fangled PT boats.
Hey John, I ran into a guy playing racquet ball at the Littleton YMCA the other day who used to climb here in the 70s. He's long since quit the rock game, but he used to run into you of course, since there were so few climbers then by comparison. I asked him if he trad climbed, and he looked puzzled. So I offered, "You would have just called it climbing."
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j-tha-b
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Mar 3, 2004, 5:21 AM
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waht about the goldline or wahtever stretch mobiles. yeah i dont know anything. plus ropes dont matter if you dont use them. hahah or somehting. peace
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