This is awesome.

https://www.youtube.com/...ed&v=wu8wS5no0_U

No shit. I just had forgotten to tell her that behind Banz's nice exterior is a completely self-interested climber.

Why aren't there more women construction workers?

That's what bolting a route feels like.

Paul, interesting post on facespace about women and bolting. I'm glad you asked because while I've wondered about it myself in the past it took writing a thoughtful reply for me to really understand what was going on there.

Too many people replying to the facebook post, and I didn't want to continue the conversation there. I think it boils down to the aggressiveness of women. I see a lot of ladies replying to your thread saying they can't find a mentor. Guys either actively seek out a mentor or say fuck it, buy their own drill and just go at 'er.



Lena, you were talking about the ergonomics of drilling as a woman: you should give it a go sometime because the only thing you really have to do one handed is hold the drill while you're drilling. There's a lot of rigging involved when you're bolting routes, and part of that is how you've slug your drill and how well you can holster it when you're not drilling. Trust me, you aren't trying to change bits or anything like that one handed.

Why aren't there more women construction workers?

That's what bolting a route feels like.

If you saw my second post, I would like to. Theoretically -- at some point in the future. The hassle of a drill is a minor point to me personally. It doesn't stop me from putting up routes at the gym, and it wouldn't stop me from bolting, if I really wanted to bolt. What is stopping me right now is time, primarily. If i have two weekends a month to climb, I want to climb, and not bolt during prime weather season. And when the weather is NOT prime for climbing, it is prime for plenty of other things that don't require me to drive 7 hours one way.

Realistically, I don't see it happening in the next 8 years or so. I see no benefit to me personally, other than it is a skill, and learning is good. If I had nothing to climb, I would be more likely to bolt. Even if I had 2 months off right now, or even a year, I would be climbing, and traveling, and not bolting. It would have to be a long-term multi-year living-near-the-crag arrangement before I would consider it.

On a related note, camhat, you know how Banz used to bolt a lot, but not anymore? While there may be more than one reason why he stopped, the local climber-politics being one, his break-through in terms of climbing difficulty has coincided with a decrease in his bolting. And he himself has said to me that he used to bolt stuff for him to climb, but now there are so many new routes for him to climb that bolting looks less appealing. (And he has a girlfriend to spend time with, when he is not climbing)

Also, on a related subject, there was enough controversy there already and I didn't want to bring kids into it, but really, if you were to compare the fraction of male bolters who have young kids vs. total number of male bolters, to a fraction of female bolters with young kids vs a total number of female bolters, your numbers will be even more dramatically different, IMO. That fell into the "time" category, I guess.

I think Karla has kids. I don't think any other female bolter hes young kids, or any kids, that I am aware of.

That's why I didn't really want to bring it up in Paul's facebook thread, it wasn't a major part of your post.

For me bolting is more about giving my due to the climbing community than the drive of putting up new routes. Its was nice to put up a few routes, and I'm sure I'll put more up at some time, but I don't have that need that someone like Nathan has.

I think it's more of a reflection of society than anything else. Yes, I think that women being directed not to be so aggressive has something to do with it, but I think you're right about things like kids too. And even in a relationship without children, the man and woman in the relationship take on certain roles too which may leave the women more responsibility at home regardless (I'd be curious on your thoughts on a childless couple).

Is that the same reason that there aren't more female engineers?

Crowbars aren't that hard to use.

I don't think it's the same reasons.

We climbed yesterday. Banz did not send dial yet; endless is harder than the RRG!

Funny story: I was swamped with work Saturday morning and running around. Meanwhile, Dan snagged Karen to go climbing after only meeting her twenty minutes earlier. He dragged her out to endless, put up one shitty 5.7 for her before embarking on three 1 hr apiece seshes on Dial. By the time I finished work and caught up to them she was a bit annoyed at me, and I had to take her and her friends on a moderate tour all the next day to make up for it. Fuckin Brayack, hehe.

Needlez! Good shit. I did inner sanctum and liked it. I remember those sporty moves. Heads up for 5.9.

Is p&p with doing? I've never ventured down that far.

hehe. Your girlfriend, your problems.

Is that the same reason that there aren't more female engineers?

Crowbars aren't that hard to use.

It's nothing like being an engineer. CI is right.

I've never been a construction worker, but I've always been a tinkerer, and I do all my own fix-it work around the house, plumbing, sheet rock, what have you.

Putting up new routes feels halfway between that and aid climbing.

And you don't see very many women who are aid climbers or home-repair people either.

Allison is pretty handy. And she's always been interested (and is very good at it, too) in putting up routes in the gym. But she's never expressed any interest in putting up routes outside with me. Too much work, not enough fun?

I don't really know, but it's a good question.

Paul - throw this out there in the Women's Room here on rc.com - it's a good troll. I'd like to see what you get.

GO

I also think there is no comparison between bolting a route and putting up a gym route.

Did t mean it's too hard. Mostly that the work is unappealing to women generally. I think women would probably choose to wait tables instead. Which is certainly also hard work.

Engineering I think most women get subtly steered away from it. Maybe that's changing?

that's why I put the crow bar comment in there. I figured it was either a comment to do with society (engineer thing) or the effort that it takes (crowbar comment).

Yes, it's physical to jug a line and crowbar things off, but it's also physical just to take up the sport of climbing. Cleaning a choss pile route may be dirty, but it's not something where I felt physically limited (except for the fact I broke my femur and hanging in the harness for long periods of time used to suck big time).

Personally, I will choose to view the constriction working comment as it being perceived as being too hard so women shy away.

To me there are significant similarities. In both cases, it's about having a vision, and putting in time and energy, with little payoff, largely in a non-social situation. And, hopefully, at the end, knowing you've created something cool that others might enjoy. But, clearly, there's something about bolting a chosspile that is very different and less appealing for many people.

GO

Did t mean it's too hard. Mostly that the work is unappealing to women generally. I think women would probably choose to wait tables instead. Which is certainly also hard work.

Engineering I think most women get subtly steered away from it. Maybe that's changing?