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climb14er
Dec 8, 2004, 6:46 PM
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Colorado's Greatest (Or Top Three) Rock Climber At Neptunes Here's the info from Neptunes: SPECIAL NIGHT! - Wednesday, December 8th - Pat Ament - $4.00 "Remembering Rock Climbing" - Talk and Slide Presentation Come and meet an old sage of boulder climbing. Pat Ament is and always will be a legend in our sport of climbing. From groundbreaking first ascents, to numerous books he's written, to his musical talent, Pat is an inspiration to us all. Pat will be in the store from 6 to 8 pm for book signings, and his show will start at 8:00pm. DON'T MISS THIS!
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ambler
Dec 8, 2004, 6:51 PM
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In reply to: Colorado's Greatest (Or Top Three) Rock Climber At Neptunes Pat Ament was the nonmissing link between Layton Kor and Jim Erickson. Are they the other "top three"? We must know.
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climb14er
Dec 8, 2004, 7:04 PM
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Jim Erickson is a very good choice. I would place Rick Rossiter in third place. Pat Ament and Layton Kor tied for first! BTW, kudos to Lynn Hill.
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mbg
Dec 8, 2004, 7:28 PM
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In reply to: Jim Erickson is a very good choice. I would place Rick Rossiter in third place. Pat Ament and Layton Kor tied for first! BTW, kudos to Lynn Hill. Rossiter?? Are you serious? :shock: He's definitely a prolific route developer but the exploits of Gill, Roger Briggs, Harvy Carter, among others, are without a doubt more noteworthy. Should be a good show.
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pt
Dec 8, 2004, 7:34 PM
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Layton Kor Jim Erickson Steve Wunsch
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climbhoser
Dec 8, 2004, 7:55 PM
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Steve Wunsch Pat Ament Larry Hamilton Ray Northcutt Robert Ellingwood Jim Dunn (outta C-Springs) Tha Stettners Larry Dalke Roger Briggs (big ups to this man, he IS the Diamond) This list goes on and on...
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climb14er
Dec 8, 2004, 8:23 PM
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He's definitely a prolific route developer but the exploits of Gill, Roger Briggs, Harvy Carter, among others, are without a doubt more noteworthy. Should be a good show. > Yes, I am. I think all the others like Dalke, Gill, Briggs, Wuensch, etc including Wayne Goss are all on the top of the list. Rossiter, IMHO, not only developed many of the routes, he climbed alpine extensively in addition to rock. Pat Ament to me was the first gymnast/climber who climbed beautifully. I saw him climb numerous times and can honestly say he's right up there! BTW, someone posted Robert Ellingwood. It was Albert Ellingwood. :wink:
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polarwid
Dec 8, 2004, 8:26 PM
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Now that we have hi-jacked this thread... DAVE BREASHEARS DUNCAN FERGUSON CHRISTIAN GRIFFITH and, uhh ME!!! :wink:
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takeme
Dec 8, 2004, 8:48 PM
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Without getting into a debate of who exactly is the greatest, or who the "top 3" are, I feel that the late Earl Wiggins has to be mentioned with the other luminaries in this thread.
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thewyseclimber
Dec 8, 2004, 8:54 PM
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As to Harvey Carter...I work at a summer camp on the back of Pike's Peak, right down the road from harvey's house. In fact we often park on his property and even hike through it to various places. Anyway, I always see his name in guide books and such, and I've always wanted to talk with him sometime about climbing, but never had the chance to. That said...does anybody have any info on climbing up around the Crags campground or across the road on a big slab face (we call it old baldy...)? I also scoped a line of bolts up some slabs up towards the end of the crags trail, and they looked relatively new. Anybody have any info on this stuff? And especially in relation to the bolts, I wonder if anybody knows what harvey's feelings on developing the area. There are definitely some good cracks to be had in the near vicinity of the crags campground, if anybody knows where I'm talking about. Not to hijack the thread or anything...my apologies. But yes, it seems that Harvey was quite the climber back in the day. The FAs in the region seem endless.
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polarwid
Dec 8, 2004, 10:27 PM
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Actually, IMHO The top three should be KOR CARTER WIGGINS but that is open to debate...
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flamer
Dec 8, 2004, 10:40 PM
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In reply to: He's definitely a prolific route developer but the exploits of Gill, Roger Briggs, Harvy Carter, among others, are without a doubt more noteworthy. Should be a good show. > Yes, I am. I think all the others like Dalke, Gill, Briggs, Wuensch, etc including Wayne Goss are all on the top of the list. Rossiter, IMHO, not only developed many of the routes, he climbed alpine extensively in addition to rock. Pat Ament to me was the first gymnast/climber who climbed beautifully. I saw him climb numerous times and can honestly say he's right up there! BTW, someone posted Robert Ellingwood. It was Albert Ellingwood. :wink: Dude!! You're killing me with Rossiter!!! He shouldn't be anywhere near this list!! Hell I'd pick Bobd WAY before rossiter!!! And isn't it Richard (or ricH) rossiter?? Not rick? :wink: josh
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climbrc
Dec 8, 2004, 10:42 PM
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How do you define: Colorado's Greatest (Or Top Three) Rock Climber. Namely, how do you define Colorado climber? Is this who lives here now? Who was born here? Who lived her for more than 10 years?? Alive? Dead? Hardest routes? Most FA's? What about Lowe, Caldwell, Durrance (I think he was here for a bit). Hill was only mentioned once.. in passing. Cheers,
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photon
Dec 8, 2004, 10:43 PM
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Mark Wilford -best alpine climber Tommy Caldwell- best rock climber aid --who cares
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flamer
Dec 8, 2004, 10:49 PM
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In reply to: Hill was only mentioned once.. in passing. Hill may live here now, but she's not really considered a CO. climber. Gunks maybe, J-tree, Yosemite maybe but not really CO. josh
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climb14er
Dec 8, 2004, 11:01 PM
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Hell I'd pick Bobd WAY before rossiter!!! And isn't it Richard (or ricH) rossiter?? Not rick? > I just love it when a yung'un calls me 'Dude'. If you don't like Rossiter, you probably don't like Ament or Kor. Then again, most if not all of the yung'uns never climbed or met Ament, Kor, Rossiter. Their opinions are only based on heresay and rhetoric. Too bad cause the three that I mentioned and a lot of the others were some incredible climbers that many today couldn't even carry their jock straps! :wink:
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flamer
Dec 8, 2004, 11:24 PM
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In reply to: aid --who cares More people than you think.... Oldschool...I'd say Kor Newschool...It would have to be Jim Beyer(even though he blurs the old/new stuff abit) But I'd also give an honorable mention to Khris Kalous. josh
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steelmonkey
Dec 8, 2004, 11:36 PM
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josh wrote:
In reply to: Hill may live here now, but she's not really considered a CO. climber. Gunks maybe, J-tree, Yosemite maybe but not really CO. For the same reason, I thought Wunsch was an odd choice. In spite of his accomplishments climbing in Colorado, I always think of him more as a Gunkie than anything else.
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flamer
Dec 8, 2004, 11:41 PM
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In reply to: Hell I'd pick Bobd WAY before rossiter!!! And isn't it Richard (or ricH) rossiter?? Not rick? > I just love it when a yung'un calls me 'Dude'. If you don't like Rossiter, you probably don't like Ament or Kor. Then again, most if not all of the yung'uns never climbed or met Ament, Kor, Rossiter. Their opinions are only based on heresay and rhetoric. Too bad cause the three that I mentioned and a lot of the others were some incredible climbers that many today couldn't even carry their jock straps! :wink: Ok translation...saying "dude" is like saying "man" from your time.... I have tremendous respect for Kor anyone that doesn't; hasn't a clue. Ament was also a truly gifted climber... Rossiter was/is great as well... However putting Rossiter's name with Kor and Ament is like putting corn in your oatmeal- it just doesn't belong!!! Have I ever met Kor or Ament?(and I've certainly never "climbed" them!! :wink: ) nope. Rossiter I've been around enough to develope an opinion. Hearsay and rhetoric are awfully funny words to use here. What I know about "most" of the people I consider to be great and influential climbers I've learned 3 ways....Reading books(highly recommend the updated Climb!), listening to the stories told by other climbers(some of whom were there), and climbing the routes they climbed, did the FA's of, or covanted. Calling the telling of climbing tale's heresay is fairly blasphamous(sp?) in my book.... josh
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lemon_boy
Dec 8, 2004, 11:43 PM
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cool thread. thewyseclimber was looking for some info on routes at the crags. i have some topos i've made and i could photocopy them for you. drop me a line and i'll do it. i think i might have met you at turkey last summer? the newer bolt lines have been mostly put up by bill schmauser i think, with some of the other lines being put in by other prominent colo springs and south platte climbers. the ones i have done have been pretty good. lot of good crack climbing in the area. as far as the top 3 go, a good way to define colorado climber would be native. this is not in a snobbish sense, but seems most simple. this would eliminate some very good contenders for # 3 position. (my opinion of the top two would be kor and caldwell). guys getting ruled out on the native criteria would include some mega-heros like jim erickson, jimmy dunn, etc. i think my top three contenders for thrid place would be roger briggs (who OWNS 5.12 on the diamond) earl wiggins (perhaps the greatest unsung climber of all time) and harvey carter (met him last spring and he says he has put up over 5000 first ascents and has every one of them documented, i'd kill to inherit that pile of notes). no offense in any way to rossiter, he is a great climber and a cool guy, but there are a lot of big dogs that are way, way up there.
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flamer
Dec 8, 2004, 11:45 PM
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In reply to: josh wrote: In reply to: Hill may live here now, but she's not really considered a CO. climber. Gunks maybe, J-tree, Yosemite maybe but not really CO. For the same reason, I thought Wunsch was an odd choice. In spite of his accomplishments climbing in Colorado, I always think of him more as a Gunkie than anything else. Yup, good point. I think Wunsch had a bigger impact on colorado climbing than Ms. Hill did... I'm trying to think of what significant climbs she did in colorado...the Ophir wall comes to mind....I know she's climbed some hard and big route's here but I don't think she made the splash Wunsch did....not that they are "colorado climbers" but it's interesting none the less....
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flamer
Dec 8, 2004, 11:49 PM
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What about the late, great Billy Westbay?? Wasn't he a Colorado native??(C.springs i think?) If nothing else being part of the first one day ascent of the Nose was pretty significant(especially considering the company he did it in)..... josh
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climb14er
Dec 8, 2004, 11:49 PM
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The whole reason for the post was to mention the Neptune show. Perhaps I should have left out Rossiter's name as this has gotten people's attention and opinion. Personally, it's all about Kor and Ament in my book and if people want to lessen the reputation of Rossiter, no skin off of my back. Rossiter has climbed what many would only think of doing so in their dreams. I've seen two of the three climb and the third, I met in person and we talked at length. I climbed a lot with others who climbed with all three and some of the others mentioned earlier. I would have no problem carrying their gear racks, ropes, etc when I was climbing all of the time. I pay my respects to people who earn that respect. :wink:
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ambler
Dec 8, 2004, 11:51 PM
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In reply to: jFor the same reason, I thought Wunsch was an odd choice. In spite of his accomplishments climbing in Colorado, I always think of him more as a Gunkie than anything else. Steve made 3 major contributions to early-70s Colorado climbing. He was one of the leaders in the Eldo revolution (along with Roger and Duncan). But Erickson was the heart; I think others would agree. One interesting dimension was the contrasting, but both intensely ethical, approaches to free climbing by Steve and Jim.
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ambler
Dec 8, 2004, 11:55 PM
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In reply to: The whole reason for the post was to mention the Neptune show. Yeah, but threads run where they will.... 8^)
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coloradoboulderer
Dec 9, 2004, 12:08 AM
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What about Sherman? He's practically a god in colorado bouldering plus he has that awesome mustache so he must take up the top three spots or something.
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mbg
Dec 9, 2004, 12:11 AM
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On a related note that sort of gets back to the original theme of this thread, another famous Colorado rockstar is making a public appearance this week. Gerry Roach, who would surely be on some all-time top-10 lists of Colorado climbers, will be at the LoDo Tattered Cover tomorrow night (Thursday) at 7:30 in support of his new book. The Roach-man has been pulling down in the Rockies and around the globe longer than just about every living "top-3" mentioned here so far.
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bigwallfun
Dec 9, 2004, 12:38 AM
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Jimmy Dunn, harvey carter, Tommy Caldwell
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curt
Dec 9, 2004, 1:04 AM
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In reply to: What about Sherman? He's practically a god in colorado bouldering plus he has that awesome mustache so he must take up the top three spots or something. Sorry, he's from California. :lol: Curt
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ambler
Dec 9, 2004, 1:17 AM
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I think the criterion ought to be something like who most dramatically broke through -- not to bigger numbers, but introducing new ideas of what climbers could and should do, leaving ultra classics for the rest of us as their example. By that criterion, Kor, Ament and Erickson seem reasonable choices to me (and of course there were many more). But then I know jack about the 80s, or 90s, or Sport Park. 8^)
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climb14er
Dec 9, 2004, 6:06 AM
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Great show. One of the best at Neptunes. 1:45 of legendary pics and stories. Perfect way to spend a nice evening.
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flamer
Dec 9, 2004, 3:23 PM
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In reply to: or Sport Park. 8^) Damn it!!! Can we leave that place out of it??? josh
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nthusiastj
Dec 9, 2004, 3:51 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Hell I'd pick Bobd WAY before rossiter!!! And isn't it Richard (or ricH) rossiter?? Not rick? > I just love it when a yung'un calls me 'Dude'. If you don't like Rossiter, you probably don't like Ament or Kor. Then again, most if not all of the yung'uns never climbed or met Ament, Kor, Rossiter. Their opinions are only based on heresay and rhetoric. Too bad cause the three that I mentioned and a lot of the others were some incredible climbers that many today couldn't even carry their jock straps! :wink: Ok translation...saying "dude" is like saying "man" from your time.... I have tremendous respect for Kor anyone that doesn't; hasn't a clue. Ament was also a truly gifted climber... Rossiter was/is great as well... However putting Rossiter's name with Kor and Ament is like putting corn in your oatmeal- it just doesn't belong!!! Have I ever met Kor or Ament?(and I've certainly never "climbed" them!! :wink: ) nope. Rossiter I've been around enough to develope an opinion. Hearsay and rhetoric are awfully funny words to use here. What I know about "most" of the people I consider to be great and influential climbers I've learned 3 ways....Reading books(highly recommend the updated Climb!), listening to the stories told by other climbers(some of whom were there), and climbing the routes they climbed, did the FA's of, or covanted. Calling the telling of climbing tale's heresay is fairly blasphamous(sp?) in my book.... josh I agree with Josh. After 5 minutes on a route next to Rossiter, I wanted to bitch slap him. I have never heard a climber thalk so much during a route. It was like climbing while listening to bad talk radio. That doesn't mean he's not a good climber. But you have to admit that personality factors in too. When ones personality is so bad that you wouldn't want to be around him, that detracts from his status. Now some others climb hard and are fun to be around.
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climbrc
Dec 9, 2004, 3:56 PM
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Well, if we include the Sport Park than I must be on the list somewhere.. 'Cause I can climb 5.16 at the Sport Park..
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bobd1953
Dec 9, 2004, 4:05 PM
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In reply to: That doesn't mean he's not a good climber. But you have to admit that personality factors in too. When ones personality is so bad that you wouldn't want to be around him, that detracts from his status. Now some others climb hard and are fun to be around. Spending five mintues next to someone on a climb is not the best way to judge someone and know what their personality is like. I known Richard for over 20 years and is a pretty cool guy with many interests. Don't be so quick to judge someone. Also, this tread is about as stupid as it gets!
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climb14er
Dec 9, 2004, 4:11 PM
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Pat Ament would say and he did last evening that he was one difficult person to be around at times when he was climbing hard. I remember a few times back in the mid 70's about people talking negatively about Pat but I never had that experience with him. Some people are tough to get along with and others are easy. I know that for me, there are folks who love to climb with me and others I would rather not climb with. Such is life! One doesn't have to be a nice guy to either be a good climber or a legend. In fact, a lot of emotionally tough (Royal Robbins comes to mind) and reserved guys from the early California (and Colorado) days were the top climbers who put up and developed fine routes. Nice guys don't always make the best climbers nor friends.
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iclimbtoo
Dec 9, 2004, 4:15 PM
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What about Aaron Rolston... :lol: :lol: :lol: :nono:
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flamer
Dec 9, 2004, 7:53 PM
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In reply to: Also, this tread is about as stupid as it gets! Oh come on bob I gave you an "honorable mention"...... ....now if I could just figure out which TREAD you're talking about.... josh
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