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adam3
Aug 27, 2007, 6:26 PM
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I know right on the package it says for ropes 10min 11max. Is it a serious issue if I used a 9.8mm rope with a Grigri?
Oh also its only going to be used ona 25ft wall top rope. if that makes any difference.
(This post was edited by adam3 on Aug 27, 2007, 6:40 PM)
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Gmburns2000
Aug 27, 2007, 6:41 PM
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adam3 wrote: I know right on the package it says for ropes 10min 11max. Is it a serious issue if I used a 9.8mm rope with a Grigri?
I use a 9.8mm rope and it does feed quite a bit faster than an 11mm rope (especially now that the gri-gri has worn), but it still locks very well. However, I only use it in the gym just in case it doesn't lock someday (as it becomes even more worn).
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adam3
Aug 27, 2007, 6:43 PM
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so the only thing is with older grigris it will feed/lower much faster?
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Gmburns2000
Aug 27, 2007, 6:51 PM
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adam3 wrote: so the only thing is with older grigris it will feed/lower much faster?
older = used more often - it is actually noticeable after only a couple of months of use. Again, I haven't had a problem with it locking. That's worked great so far. I have noticed a difference with lowering over time and with different ropes. I only use my gri-gri on thicker ropes when outside.
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dbrayack
Aug 27, 2007, 7:14 PM
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You'll be fine.
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adam3
Aug 27, 2007, 7:38 PM
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Yah I use it all the time for myself. I just really want to replace some old ropes at a camp I work at. So I figured id give them a 9.8mm 60m rope cut in half. I dont like two of the four we use there and I just want something that feeds nicer. Donka for your replies!
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dbrayack
Aug 27, 2007, 7:50 PM
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yah, it feeds like a dream. We demoed a 9.2 for a review here; with a gri gri, if you completely let go with a person hanging (top rope through two anchors only), the rope creeps through ever so slightly.
This is on a 10 year old, well worn Gri-Gri as well.
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vegastradguy
Aug 27, 2007, 7:58 PM
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wasnt the grigri rated to ropes 9.7mm and above at one point? at any rate, a 9.8mm is close enough to 10mm that its fine. just dont take your hand off the brake side like so many grigri owners these days....
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caughtinside
Aug 27, 2007, 8:00 PM
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adam3 wrote: I know right on the package it says for ropes 10min 11max. Is it a serious issue if I used a 9.8mm rope with a Grigri? Oh also its only going to be used ona 25ft wall top rope. if that makes any difference.
You should be ok. I know the device itself says 10.0 to 11.0mm ropes, but I believe petzl changed the rating to 9.7mm for the skinny end, and I believe it says so on the grigri instructions on the petzl website.
Anecdotally, I have used a 9.4 on the grigri and it has worked fine, although with some of the slow creep through the device when locked up. I pay more attention with the skinny rope, and wear belay gloves.
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adam3
Aug 27, 2007, 8:04 PM
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Sounds good to me. Just wanted second opinion before I cut a rope and give it to my camp. Donka
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ericontherocks
Aug 27, 2007, 8:10 PM
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A thing to note about ropes as well. the diameter on the tag will only give you an idea of how thick the rope really is. Some companys 9.8 is thicker then other 10.2. different company measure thier ropes differntly. some with weight hanging from the rope others do not. I know there is a bunch of leeway put into the guidelines stamped on the grigri. So as stated above you'll be fine
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Gmburns2000
Aug 27, 2007, 8:17 PM
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ericontherocks wrote: A thing to note about ropes as well. the diameter on the tag will only give you an idea of how thick the rope really is. Some companys 9.8 is thicker then other 10.2. different company measure thier ropes differntly. some with weight hanging from the rope others do not. I know there is a bunch of leeway put into the guidelines stamped on the grigri. So as stated above you'll be fine
Wow, I didn't know that. Interesting to know. You'd think there'd be a standard measuring technique. I wonder what kind of weight they use. Thanks.
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dynoho
Aug 27, 2007, 8:29 PM
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vegastradguy wrote: wasnt the grigri rated to ropes 9.7mm and above at one point? at any rate, a 9.8mm is close enough to 10mm that its fine. just dont take your hand off the brake side like so many grigri owners these days....
Yes. Although the device says 10-11mm, the guide says that 9.7 is acceptable.
http://en.petzl.com/ProduitsServices/GRIGRI_D14601-I.pdf
It should be noted that the force required to cause slippage is directly proportional to the diameter of rope. At 10mm this is approximately 4kn, at 11mm 7kn. The guide does not indicate an amount for 9.7mm but logically it is less than the 4kn.
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jt512
Aug 27, 2007, 8:40 PM
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Folks, the answer isn't what Petzl says is or is not ok; it's what the actual behavior of the device is with the specific rope. No matter what Petzl says, with ropes about 10.2 mm or less you have to be careful, and the thinner, newer, or slicker the rope, the more careful you have to be. With these thinner ropes, you basically have to treat the grigri like an ATC, and maintain a firm grip on the brake side of the rope. A light fall, thin rope, and merely a loose grip with the brake hand is a combination that can produce insufficient tension in the rope to cause the grigri to lock.
Jay
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mojomonkey
Aug 27, 2007, 9:00 PM
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I'd be hesitant to go with something outside of the spec if this is for a camp where there are tons of parents ready to sue for liability if you drop their kid. Even if their online specs give you more leeway, is it really worth trying to cut it so close to the minimum? Can't the camp spare a few bucks to get their own replacement ropes that aren't your discards? Or if this is a new rope you are buying, can't the camp get a better deal with a distributor? I'd think they could work out a pro deal to get more rope for the cash you could then donate to them...
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adam3
Aug 27, 2007, 9:29 PM
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Yah I can easily set them up with a brand new what ever size rope they want. I just figured I have one that I am willing to give them. climbed with twice. Just curious if the 9.8 would work
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thomasribiere
Aug 27, 2007, 9:38 PM
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adam3 wrote: I know right on the package it says for ropes 10min 11max. Is it a serious issue if I used a 9.8mm rope with a Grigri? Oh also its only going to be used ona 25ft wall top rope. if that makes any difference.
You'll be fine. Just be cautious. As usual while belaying.
Just a side question in a country where one can be easily sued : any story where a belayer would be sued for using a grigri with a <10mm rope while a belaying accident occured?
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paintrain
Aug 27, 2007, 9:50 PM
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jt512 wrote: Folks, the answer isn't what Petzl says is or is not ok; it's what the actual behavior of the device is with the specific rope. No matter what Petzl says, with ropes about 10.2 mm or less you have to be careful, and the thinner, newer, or slicker the rope, the more careful you have to be. With these thinner ropes, you basically have to treat the grigri like an ATC, and maintain a firm grip on the brake side of the rope. A light fall, thin rope, and merely a loose grip with the brake hand is a combination that can produce insufficient tension in the rope to cause the grigri to lock. Jay
What Jay said.
The thinner below the spec, the more you have to use it like an ATC. I have used them down to a 9.2, but I had to be on top of it like an atc. If you follow Petzl's directions, you should use it almost ACT like all the time.
If you are dealing with beginners, I wouldn't use it outside of spec. Look at some of the other auto locking devices that cover the spec range (cinch, sum, etc).
PT
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climbingaggie03
Aug 27, 2007, 10:09 PM
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So my gri-gri is a few years old, but hasn't been used tons, but I rope solo with my 9.2mm Mammut Revelation (which is a dry rope) and it locks securely every time.
That said, I've done a fair amount of guiding and even more climbing wall/ropes course/camp work and I wouldn't advise you to use less than a 10mm with a gri-gri in that setting for 2 reasons. First is the liability of using equipment for ropes that the manual says are two small. (if the manual that comes with the gri-gri does say that.) Second a rope of that small a diameter will need to be replaced sooner than a rope with a larger diameter (and probably a thicker sheath)
but if the people that are in charge of your program are ok with it then have at it cause it should work just fine.
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mike_devildog
Aug 27, 2007, 10:44 PM
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With a 9.7 you should be fine..The gri gri acts funny with ropes above 9.7 that I have noticed. I have used it with brand spankin new ropes that have a golden dry coating on them..and they tend to be somewhat jumpy on the lower!! Other than that youre good! Happy and safe climbing!
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mr8615
Aug 27, 2007, 11:19 PM
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I've rapped and jugged several times on an 8mm tag line with a gri/ascension combo while aid soloing and never had a problem.
Here's the moral: use it with your rope, test it out, try it for yourself, find your own answer, take some falls, do whatever you can think of to get it to fail (with sufficient backup). If it does the job, then it'll do the job. Asking on here won't help you at all, do the leg work, get your answer.
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enchanted
Aug 28, 2007, 12:18 AM
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It'll work but if I were you I'd just get a Cinch. They work great once you get used to the fact that they're different than a GriGri ie. read the instructions. I think their actually the better device overall especially on smaller ropes. I'd forget about the SUM, the lever position freaks me out. I got a Cinch and never went back.
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adam3
Aug 28, 2007, 1:54 AM
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Thanks for your input. As an end to this post Id like to say that yes I will test the rope with falls and play around with it. And as far as staff running the wall im in charge of training each year so Ill havea list of "certified" people. So thanks for the input everyone!
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