AMGA is a relative newcomer to the industry. There are plenty of guides that were guiding long before AMGA was conceived who don't feel the need to go get certification. Not being certified does not and should not automatically discredit a guide. I think it helps these days however.
A guide should want to have insurance and legal access to the area where he takes his clients. State or federally owned lands may or may not require certain general liability limits as well as licensing.

I try and judge guide like I would any other human being, for the skills they posses, the experience they have, their ability to communicate and instruct, and their sense of humor. I try and not draw conclusions based upon diplomas and paperwork.

ive said this before, and ill say it again. AMGA certification doesn't always indicate safe and quality service.
I will provide an example using Jack Roberts, a noted alpinist and a guide I have hired to climb ice routes out of my league in Colorado.
He doesn't have AMGA certs, nor does he intend on getting them yet he is the best guide I have ever had the pleasure of following.
AMGA certs are expensive. They take lots of time to complete.
Jack could easily pass any exams that the AMGA would give. HE is likely to be more qualified and thorough then examiners.
Why should he spend upwards of 10,000 dollars and invest a month of his time to fulfill requirements for IFMGA certification?
I have also seen AMGA certified folks running around on Willey's slide (50 degree ice in NH) making the most dangerous situation I have ever seen.
I try and judge guide like I would any other human being, for the skills they posses, the experience they have, their ability to communicate and instruct, and their sense of humor. I try and not draw conclusions based upon diplomas and paperwork.

There are some old school guides out there who have little to no training that exude confidence. They've been doing this for years so why shouldn't they? At the same time, they often don't know what they don't know.

It is utterly impossible for a client who hires a guide to evaluate what a guide doesn't know. As such the only way to look at a guide's ability is via AMGA or equivalent training.

Treat you client as a liability, an accident waiting to happen, and not capable of any judgement or independent thought.

In my AMGA training, the overarching message is basically the following:


It is unfortunately true that some clients must be treated this way. But they are hardly the majority, and I really find it discouraging that a guide would (or could) work for years with this kind of attitude.

The majority of my clients, including those with tunnel vision, have been extremely malleable. The attitude espoused above (Joshy's post) tacitly requires that they unchangeable, incapable of being educated, and basically stupid people. This is simply not the case. Many potential clients will (and should be, in my opinion) be discouraged from hiring a self-important wanker who bandies about his certification like a panacea.

assuming my own risk and most importanty... making my own judgements.

That's bull sh*t dingus! And since you admit you've never hired a guide you really don't know what it's all about for people now do you.

(I am not extrapolating any of this to any of you)

ive said this before, and ill say it again. AMGA certification doesn't always indicate safe and quality service.

It's not s---, just a traditional attitude that many don't necessarily share.


This is exactly what many of my clients want to avoid.

What part of Dingus wrote:
(I am not extrapolating any of this to any of you)
did you fail to comprehend?

I guess the drivel that followed this preface where you went on to infer that by hiring a guide one surrenders:
"Responsibility.Judgement.Route finging.Leadership.Planning."
That's shallow and false.

The guide SHORT ROPED HIM up the standard descent route. Noting quite says 'your judgement is irrelevant' than being short roped by the guy you're paying to drag you up the punter's route.

I'm not sure what he bought. I bet he isn't either.

There's nothing wrong with guiding or their clients, nor their motivations, both nobel and base. I was simply explaining why some climbers wouldn't avail themselves of a guide... because the guide replaces part of the climbing game and for some of us, that part of the game is gold.