|
|
|
|
j_ung
Sep 12, 2006, 8:24 PM
Post #51 of 68
(4531 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 21, 2003
Posts: 18690
|
After a little poking around online, I'm finding that this notion that an active rattle may actually be a liability for a rattlesnake seems to be a pretty old one, dating back to the American Naturalist, first published in 1867.
In reply to: ...the tail appendage of the rattlesnake was not to be explained on the doctrine of natural selection, inasmuch as it could contribute in no way to the advantage of the animal. It seemed to me quite clear that it was rather calulated to hinder than to help the creature in the race of life by warning its prey of its presence...
That's not to say that the premise -- that a rattle would hinder the snake by warning potential prey -- is the same as pinpointing its location to predators (humans). But it's at least similar enough, IMO, to warrant more consideration than, "Snakes are unaffected by opinions, however ridiculous they may appear."
Then again, I can think of other reasons for a rattler not rattling, namely that it might have been conditioned to stay silent around larger animals all along. Perhaps the rattle is only the second in a line up of defenses, the first being a combination of silence and stillness. More than one source also pointed out that rattlesnake rattles don't work as well when wet, which might help to explain the relative silence of some southeastern snakes. :lol:
|
|
|
|
|
redlegrangerone
Sep 12, 2006, 8:30 PM
Post #52 of 68
(4531 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 21, 2005
Posts: 851
|
Everyone is stuck on the human as predator adaption. We are far from the only thing that will prey on a snake. The main predator in the desert comes from the sky.
|
|
|
|
|
rockscars
Sep 12, 2006, 9:09 PM
Post #53 of 68
(4531 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 9, 2006
Posts: 35
|
I thought that I might share a little story about my only Arkansas rattler experience. I was a trail guide on the Buffalo River for a youth group a few summers ago.
To set a little background: these kids had never been camping before, nobody had a map, no one had the faintest idea what "leave no trace" meant :roll: . Totally unprepared.
Well, after spending the morning playing sweeper for the trash thrown on the ground and kids left behind, we made it to the campsite. Boys on one side of the river, girls on the other side.
The boys were on a bluff line/ridge area setting up their camp when I heard frantic screams. I broke into a run thinking one of the kids was seriously injured. Luckily I got there before anyone was injured. The kids nearly stepped on a 4 foot long rattler. I walked up as one of the consulars was poking at the snake with a 10 inch twig (no joking!) :shock:
I told him to back up slowly, then informed him how far a rattler can strike while in a coil. One of the kids offered to kill the snake and I counter offered to go to his home and kill him just for being there :twisted: . When the kid laughed at me I told him that I would just tell the rangers and have him arrested, locked up in Newton County jail 8^) , and fined.
I scooted the snake up off the hill with a LONG stick. I think that everyone was lucky that the snake had just eaten, or else we would have been carrying someone out with a massive venom injection (being taunted repeatedly and all)!
|
|
|
|
|
dingus
Sep 12, 2006, 9:42 PM
Post #54 of 68
(4531 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 17398
|
But j, rattlensakes ARE unaffected by our opinions. That's a simple fact.
Here is what I think: I think humans have been walking by rattlensakes since time began, and rarely getting buzzed for their efforts. That's what I think.
I think most people get their notion of proper rattlesnake behavior (what ever that may be) from TV westerns and such. So when the see a rattler that didn't buzz, well, that's gotta represent a change! Afterall the ones on TV ALWAYS buzz.
Now if some biologist who actually studies rattlensakes can step forward and cite a study showing rattlesnakes rattle less than they used to, I would give that report very serious weight.
But to everyone else?
BULLSHIT!
DMT
|
|
|
|
|
cchildre
Sep 13, 2006, 3:44 PM
Post #55 of 68
(4531 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 5, 2004
Posts: 671
|
Doing a study on the movements and healt of rattlesnakes, a great number were fitted with a locater beacon, which I do not recall how it was affixed. Anyhow, the locator was not super accurate and often searching for the snakes took some time. The expert conducting the study found that while searching, more times than not he would finally get the strong signal that indicated the snake was near, it was usually only a few feet away hiding under some rocks or a log. Very rarely did he locate them in the open, and getting rattled was a pretty rare thing.
As for my experience. Down in Last Chance, we climbed for about an hour, and I sat down on a boulder in the river bed. Some others were perched up a little higher. So I asked them "Do you worry about sitting that close to that rattlesnake?" "WHAT?" was their reply. I pointed out a small rattler coiled up on a rock about three feet from their position. They moved away, and I got a stick and encouraged the snake to move down into rocks. Which he did once he realized that he had been discovered. Did not rattle at any time.
|
|
|
|
|
j_ung
Sep 13, 2006, 4:16 PM
Post #56 of 68
(4531 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 21, 2003
Posts: 18690
|
In reply to: But j, rattlensakes ARE unaffected by our opinions. That's a simple fact.
Our opinions, however, are affected by rattlesnakes. :wink:
In reply to: Here is what I think: I think humans have been walking by rattlensakes since time began, and rarely getting buzzed for their efforts. That's what I think.
That's what I said! :lol:
In reply to: Then again, I can think of other reasons for a rattler not rattling, namely that it might have been conditioned to stay silent around larger animals all along. Perhaps the rattle is only the second in a line up of defenses, the first being a combination of silence and stillness. |
|
|
|
|
scottb63
Sep 13, 2006, 4:36 PM
Post #57 of 68
(4531 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 30, 2005
Posts: 52
|
I figured out how rattlesnakes are learning not to rattle. If you go on rattling.com and check out the forums, you can see all of the noob snakes starting threads like "when should I rattle?"and "how to scare climbers".
|
|
|
|
|
quietpartner
Sep 13, 2006, 5:07 PM
Post #58 of 68
(4531 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 10, 2006
Posts: 54
|
Yeah, they're pretty bright.
I dragged my pet rattler's cage over here to the laptop and scrolled the screen slowly past. He stared at it with his beady little eyes as hard as a college kid before a final, never blinked once, finally crawled back to a dark corner in the cage and I haven't heard him rattle since.
|
|
|
|
|
adrenaline_smack
Sep 13, 2006, 5:38 PM
Post #59 of 68
(4531 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 6, 2005
Posts: 63
|
obviously since we have a lack of "snakologists" here, we can safely say with 100% certaintly and without needing any proof that the lack of rattling is intelligent design. its the only acceptable answer...unless your a heathen?
|
|
|
|
|
j_ung
Sep 13, 2006, 6:21 PM
Post #60 of 68
(4531 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 21, 2003
Posts: 18690
|
Praise the lord and pass the snakes! :lol:
(Extra credit to anyone who can name the band.)
|
|
|
|
|
saxfiend
Sep 13, 2006, 7:22 PM
Post #61 of 68
(4531 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 31, 2004
Posts: 1208
|
In reply to: Praise the lord and pass the snakes! :lol: (Extra credit to anyone who can name the band.)
JL
|
|
|
|
|
fenix83
Moderator
Sep 13, 2006, 10:55 PM
Post #62 of 68
(4531 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 23, 2004
Posts: 2397
|
Yup, Hot Tuna it is... what's the prize Jay?
-F
|
|
|
|
|
prezwoodz
Sep 14, 2006, 1:10 AM
Post #63 of 68
(4531 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 11, 2003
Posts: 173
|
Well I have heard some fancy tales of snakes in this thread but how about getting a little bit closer? Lets ask our own Senior Photo Mod coldclimb what he thinks about rattlers...and a baby rattler at that.
Here is a shot I took of him at Tahquitz recently on our climbing trip.
http://www.alaskamountainforum.com/roadtrip/snakebite.jpg
Yup...thats damn close.
|
|
|
|
|
glightning
Sep 14, 2006, 2:09 AM
Post #64 of 68
(4531 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 30, 2006
Posts: 23
|
Earlier this year a buddy and myself were looking for new places to boulder. We were walking in some foothills and my friend, all of a sudden, grabbed me and pulled me back real fast knocking me down. After getting up really pissed I asked him what that was for and he pointed to a baby rattler I would've stepped on otherwise. "Wow.....Thanks?"
|
|
|
|
|
saxfiend
Sep 14, 2006, 2:27 AM
Post #65 of 68
(4531 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 31, 2004
Posts: 1208
|
In reply to: Yup, Hot Tuna it is... what's the prize Jay? -F
JL
|
|
|
|
|
heavydude
Sep 14, 2006, 2:47 AM
Post #66 of 68
(4531 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 13, 2006
Posts: 11
|
At least you get a warning. Try living in Oz where none of them rattle.
|
|
|
|
|
jeff_m
Sep 14, 2006, 3:26 AM
Post #67 of 68
(4531 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 17, 2006
Posts: 155
|
Oh hell, this thread is dead now that the Aussies are weighing in---'cuz they're going to beat us with the "more deadly" everything: snakes, spiders, scorpions, yeah and even women. (Oh, well, fun while it lasted....) :(
|
|
|
|
|
ratmnerd
Sep 14, 2006, 3:34 AM
Post #68 of 68
(4531 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 5, 2006
Posts: 120
|
In reply to: Oh hell, this thread is dead now that the Aussies are weighing in---'cuz they're going to beat us with the "more deadly" everything: snakes, spiders, scorpions, yeah and even women. (Oh, well, fun while it lasted....) :(
don't forget the sheep either - when they're not being raped witless, they can savagely maul u.
love
a kiwi
|
|
|
|
|
|
