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liz_serraglio
Nov 11, 2005, 4:30 AM
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Reading everyone's sentiments about Shelley, it makes me wish I would have gotten to know her better. I could tell from the few interactions we had that she was full of energy and enthusiasm...and that she was an extremely strong climber! I just saw her at AZ on the Rocks last week, climbing hard and wishing I could do as well. Shelley was a very friendly and kind person and she clearly touched many lives. My thoughts and prayers go out to Shelley's family, including her family of climbing partners and friends.
Liz Serraglio
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shelleys_cousin
Nov 11, 2005, 4:35 AM
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Hello everyone my name is Cindy Tucker and I'm Shelley's cousin. I want to thank everyone for all the nice things that are being said about Shelley. One night I was up until 1:00 am reading all about Shelley and I just couldn't stop crying. Hello Uncle Bill and Family. I will see you tomorrow. I know Shelly is in a better place. I know our Grand Parents and her Sister are with her now.
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slowdive
Nov 11, 2005, 4:24 PM
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I didn't know Shelley very well, but we had talked together a number of times (mostly at the gym). We had talked about climbing at Mt. Lemmon, IC, or other places, but unfortunately my schedule never worked out (newly married, school, etc.). I have been shaken up ever since receiving Amy's phone call, Sunday morning. Shelley was very kind, humble, and friendly. You could tell by talking with her that she was very excited about OTC, climbing, teaching, family/friends, and life in general. She was influential to many and loved by all who knew her. She will be missed sorely.
:cry: Jer
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auraseer
Nov 11, 2005, 4:31 PM
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Here's another possibility I haven't seen posted yet: perhaps the slings were connected not directly to each other, but to a carabiner or a third sling.
Some climbers recommend avoiding the girth hitch, and using a locking carabiner to connect slings. For this anchor that means the biner would end up behind the tree, out of view. If it was not locked correctly (or not lockable, or its lock jammed), the gate could have opened by pressure against debris or against the tree itself. Then either a sling pops out the open gate, or the biner itself fails because its open-gate strength is too low. Either way the biner comes loose and is not found with the rest of the anchor.
The scenario is similar if the anchor included three slings in series, A to B to C, however they were connected. If sling B failed, so would the whole anchor, and only A and C would remain actually connected to the rest of the gear.
This doesn't seem especially likely to me, but even a one-in-a-million chance can cause a tragedy.
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thedtbmister
Nov 11, 2005, 5:23 PM
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I was one of Ms Windsors students and what I heard is that she tied her rope to a tree before she began repelling down the cliff and the tree broke and she fell 90 feet. And then the rescue team couldnt get to her so they passed down a oxygen tank to her. When the oxygen tank ran out she passed away and by 6:30 p.m. on Saturday night she was pronounced legally dead.
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thedtbmister
Nov 11, 2005, 5:26 PM
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I was one of Ms Windsors students and what I heard is that she tied her rope to a tree before she began repelling down the cliff and the tree broke and she fell 90 feet. And then the rescue team couldnt get to her so they passed down a oxygen tank to her. When the oxygen tank ran out she passed away and by 6:30 p.m. on Saturday night she was pronounced legally dead.
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billl7
Nov 11, 2005, 6:51 PM
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In reply to: A few posters mentioned Shelley adamantly endorsing a multi-point failure system to them. However, it is possible that she did this to advocate by-the-book methods to promote good habits (an admirable quality).
I don't know Shelly and so can't comment with respect to her. I'll just add that I would not think less of anyone solely because they teach one thing and on occasion does something else (not saying you meant this). I taught my kids to drive on the right side of the yellow line but there are untold occasions when I would not fault them for crossing over. IMHO, the hard nut to crack is to recognize and take appropriate measures for the assumptions (your's and other's) that are being violated.
On the subject of joining the slings with say a second biner: this was discussed somewhere early on in the thread and I believe that Curt plans to look around in this regard.
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billl7
Nov 11, 2005, 7:03 PM
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In reply to: I was one of Ms Windsors students and what I heard is that she tied her rope to a tree before she began repelling down the cliff and the tree broke and she fell 90 feet. And then the rescue team couldnt get to her so they passed down a oxygen tank to her. When the oxygen tank ran out she passed away and by 6:30 p.m. on Saturday night she was pronounced legally dead.
Thank you for the information. I had not heard that it was 90 feet.
Must be hard for her students to no longer have Ms. Windsor. I didn't know Ms. Windsor and it is still not easy.
Study hard for her! That is exactly what we are doing for her and us.
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curt
Nov 11, 2005, 7:16 PM
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In reply to: Here's another possibility I haven't seen posted yet: perhaps the slings were connected not directly to each other, but to a carabiner or a third sling. Some climbers recommend avoiding the girth hitch, and using a locking carabiner to connect slings. For this anchor that means the biner would end up behind the tree, out of view. If it was not locked correctly (or not lockable, or its lock jammed), the gate could have opened by pressure against debris or against the tree itself. Then either a sling pops out the open gate, or the biner itself fails because its open-gate strength is too low. Either way the biner comes loose and is not found with the rest of the anchor...
According to the principal SAR individual within the Coconino County Sheriff's office:
In reply to: No other gear was located at the tree which was believed to be the anchor point. When we arrived there was a rope attached to the tree which had been used by bystanders to rappel down to assist with patient care.
I agree with John Long that further speculation will probably not gain us much, until we have had the chance to visit the accident site.
Curt
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philbox
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Nov 11, 2005, 10:11 PM
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I shall reinforce what Curt and John have suggested and that it that we all should hold off further speculation until further investigations from the actual site have been made.
In other words stop replying to this thread. Give the guys a chance to make the site visit. We can then start in on the new information.
Thanks to everyone for keeping things civil, you need look no further for the reason that this is absolutely imperative than the post made by one of her students. Her students and relatives are keeping watch over this thread, I hope we can do justice to Shelleys memory by arriving at some very conclusive findings that will help prevent any future accidents of this nature. In the mean time I eagerly await the findings from the site visit.
We are all extremely anxious to get to the bottom of this incredibly sad event.
Please hold any further thoughts until the boys have brought back their findings.
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thrasher1
Nov 12, 2005, 12:03 AM
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I have been coming to this site all week, reading all the posts and trying to compose something myself that captures all the various emotions I've been feeling. There is certainly sadness, and even anger, that someone this special is "gone" - taken way too soon - but this has softened over the week, in talking to people and reading these posts, I know that Shelley isn’t truly gone, as she will live on through all of us who were fortunate enough to have known her - even if it wasn’t as long or as well as we would have liked.
Shelley, I suppose you’re up in heaven, already out exploring new areas and scoping out some challenging routes - please be sure to also find and put up some TR’s on some easier ones for the rest of us. :o
God bless,
Larry
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cracklover
Nov 12, 2005, 12:48 AM
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To Shelley's friends and family:
I did not know her, and I'm sorry to say that I have almost nothing to offer you. What I can offer is my most sincere condolences for your loss. I'm sure you understand by now that when a climber falls, the entire community of climbers stands by her, and you. We honor and salute her life. It's a horrible, horrible thing, and happens too often. What else can we do but come together and stand by your side? Any one of us could be next.
In a very small way, I share your pain. I hold only a tiny part of it, but there are very many of us, and when we all stand by you - well I hope it helps a little.
Gabe
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babycousin
Nov 12, 2005, 3:57 AM
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she was my favorite cousin and i loved her. when i was camping she told me Molly I promise you I'll teach you how to rock climb
She was my babysitter and my favorite sorry guys but Shelly was my favorite and very funny and loving her death was a Madge pain for me
molly Brooks
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majid_sabet
Nov 12, 2005, 8:48 PM
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This was on the news on 11/12/05.
Ty Young
The Arizona Republic
Nov. 12, 2005 12:00 AM
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/tempe/articles/1112t-climber12Z10.html
Customers at a Tempe rock-climbing specialty store are feeling a collective loss since learning that the store's owner died in an accident last weekend.
Shelley Windsor, 31, of Mesa, died when she fell more than 90 feet at a popular climbing area 30 miles west of Flagstaff. Windsor owned Over the Crux, a climbing and rappelling gear company located in the Phoenix Rock Gym in Tempe.
Paul Diefenderfer, owner of Phoenix Rock Gym, had known Windsor for three years and was shocked to hear of her death.
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"She was a very well-rounded climber," Diefenderfer said. "She was one of the safest people out there."
Diefenderfer said Windsor often discussed safety tips with others, detailing the importance of preparing for any situation.
Fellow climber and longtime friend Helen Palmaira said the community has lost more than just a safety advocate but also a vibrant life.
"She wasn't just a climber. She did so much more," Palmaira said. "The rest of us could only hope to do a percentage of what she accomplished in her life."
Windsor and a friend were rappelling down into Paradise Forks the morning of Nov. 5. The two had completed two rappels into the canyon and were preparing for their third when Windsor fell.
Her parents said she had secured herself to a tree, but the rope unraveled as she made her descent. It was unlike her to have only one safety point when rappelling, they said.
"Other climbers would often get frustrated with her because she would go over her safety points so many times," said Lucille Windsor, Shelley's mother. "We're all still puzzled as to why this happened.
Diefenderfer and others said they will remember her life, not the details of her death.
"Some people climb for fun, others because the sport runs through their veins," he said. "She definitely had a passion for it and others couldn't help but be affected."
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rachellegibson
Nov 12, 2005, 9:33 PM
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My name is Rachelle Gibson. I spoke at Shelley's funeral a couple of hours ago and had a couple of things to add. As I was trying to figure out how to capture Shelley in a five-minute time frame, I was looking through a book she had given me to read: Lynn Hill's autobiography. She was an inspiration to Shelley and I decided I wanted her input and I wanted her to know who Shelley was. Unfortunately, it was midnight, but I called anyway and half-way through the answering machine message she answered. I feel terrible for calling so late, but I told her about Shelley's accident, not really sure what I wanted from her. Anyway, she listened and said that sometimes it happens and we have to move on. I appreciate that advice and thank her for it as Shelley was laid to rest today.
In addition, I had jotted down some pieces of advice that Shelley would have given if she had been speaking at her funeral. In the nervousness of speaking, I didn't realize that I hadn't shared them. Here are the top 5:
5. Always keep learning
4. Take one tablespoon of black strap molasses every morning and you won't get sick.
3. Always check your work (math and climbing)
2. Take the time to smell the roses
1. Live every day as if it was your last.
Thanks,
Rachelle
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climberchic
Nov 13, 2005, 12:21 AM
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Rachelle,
Thank you for this and for your very touching eulogy today. It brought tears to our eyes and we could feel the hurt you were sharing with us.
We know that Shelley is in a better place and she would have been proud of the service and the turnout...
...if she hadn't ditched her own funeral to go climbing at Joe's :wink:
~Erica
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granitegod
Nov 13, 2005, 12:49 AM
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While improper sling placement/connection may have been the PRECIPITATING factor.in this accident, it is possible that other factors in the anchor's construction, Shelly and her partner's decisions, and their state of mind just prior to the accident, may have been CONTRIBUTING factors. So without trying to alter the general course of this thread (anchor analysis), I thought it might be important to consider the following:
Dave, one of the first responders/climbers nearby stated:
5. There was one single ~60m rappel rope with a figure 8 on a bite
6. The rope was “attached” to the anchor with a single locking carabiner
7. At the accident site the rope was in good shape with the knot and biner (still locked) attached
Curt also states that reportedly "her single line rappel was effected by connecting the rappel rope to a locking carabiner with a figure 8 knot on a bight".
Why did she attach the rope to the biner with a fgiure 8?
Was she not pulling the rope after she rappelled? Or had they used the exact same anchor and rope to rappel twice before, using another rope to climb with. I'm not familiar with Paradise, but it sounds like setting up a single rappel with a FIXED rope would make sense if one was doing several routes in close proximity to each other.
Did Shelly rappel first, and her partner witness the anchor's failure from the top of the cliff? How did he get down to her? Is her partner able to describe what happenned?
What were Shelly and her partner planning to do after the rappel? Were they trying to "squeeze in" one more route before work, and perhaps trying to go a little faster than previous rappels?
Others have noted that Shelly was almost annoyingly cautious and meticulous; if that's the case, I have a hard time believing she rapped off a single biner. I make it practice to always rappel or TR through a minimum of 2 lockers. This makes me think perhaps Shelly was in more of a hurry than usual - adding another biner would only take a second.
I look forward to hearing from those who visited the site of the accident today, to learn how big the tree was, how far from the edge, how high the rap was, etc. Once we know the facts, we may be able reach a reasonably certain conclusion as to what happenned.
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iltripp
Nov 13, 2005, 2:06 AM
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Perhaps this has been covered, but is it possible that both slings were extended from the tree and then clipped into the biner. In other words, each sling goes around the tree, and both ends of both slings are clipped to the same biner. Maybe it's very unlikely, but I've experienced a non-locked biner opening and unclipping. Maybe the locker (which was the non-redundant part of the system) wasn't locked and came open. Granted, the locker would've had to open and both slings would've had to unclip for this to happen...
I may not have all the facts here, so forgive me if I suggested something that has been covered or is not a possibility. I'm very interested to hear what you all find out at the site. Keep us posted.
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climbsomething
Nov 13, 2005, 7:11 AM
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In reply to: Why did she attach the rope to the biner with a fgiure 8? Was she not pulling the rope after she rappelled? Or had they used the exact same anchor and rope to rappel twice before, using another rope to climb with. I'm not familiar with Paradise, but it sounds like setting up a single rappel with a FIXED rope would make sense if one was doing several routes in close proximity to each other.
Small world. I know Ty Young, the Republic reporter. Worked with him for a while at the campus newspaper. He's aces.
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climbsomething
Nov 13, 2005, 7:15 AM
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In reply to: As I was trying to figure out how to capture Shelley in a five-minute time frame, I was looking through a book she had given me to read: Lynn Hill's autobiography. She was an inspiration to Shelley and I decided I wanted her input and I wanted her to know who Shelley was. Unfortunately, it was midnight, but I called anyway and half-way through the answering machine message she answered. I feel terrible for calling so late, but I told her about Shelley's accident, not really sure what I wanted from her. Anyway, she listened and said that sometimes it happens and we have to move on. I appreciate that advice and thank her for it as Shelley was laid to rest today. |
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granitegod
Nov 13, 2005, 4:12 PM
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I was just perusing the Paradise Forks route DB, and the photos of the Gold Wall section, where it sounds like the accident occurred. There is a photo linked to this section which shows Shelly belaying crackaddict on a route. In the photo, there is a separate rope hanging from the rim to their left which appears to be a fixed rap line. So perhaps Shelly and Mark were planning to use a similar strategy on the day of the accident. In the photo, the rope runs up over the edge of the rock; no slings are visible over the lip.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/photo/photo_show.php?list_sort=highest_first&list_keyword=&list_category=0&list_filter_user_id=&list_comment_user_id=&list_per_page=25&list_album_id=&list_CountryStateID=&list_AreaID=&list_SectionID=3507&list_mode=approved&list_period=None&list_start=11&id=5041
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granitegod
Nov 13, 2005, 4:16 PM
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I was just perusing the Paradise Forks route DB, and the photos of the Gold Wall section, where it sounds like the accident occurred. There is a photo linked to this section which shows Shelly belaying crackaddict on a route. In the photo, there is a separate rope hanging from the rim to their left which appears to be a fixed rap line. So perhaps Shelly and Mark were planning to use a similar strategy on the day of the accident. In the photo, the rope runs up over the edge of the rock; no slings are visible over the lip.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/photo/photo_show.php?list_sort=highest_first&list_keyword=&list_category=0&list_filter_user_id=&list_comment_user_id=&list_per_page=25&list_album_id=&list_CountryStateID=&list_AreaID=&list_SectionID=3507&list_mode=approved&list_period=None&list_start=11&id=5041
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steelmonkey
Nov 13, 2005, 5:19 PM
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My understanding is that the accident occurred over by East Of Eden, on the main part of the Gold Wall. Grievous Angel is on a small wall just left of and above the Gold Pond, while East of Eden is one of the highest parts of the canyon and right of the Gold Pond.
My best approximation:
http://www.steelmonkeyaz.com/accidentmap.gif
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granitegod
Nov 13, 2005, 5:47 PM
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Nice diagram. I thought the photo would help some non AZ climbers get a feel of the scene. It looks like the route in the photo is significantly shorter than where Shelley fell. And the diagram also helps one see how difficult and technical an evacuation of a seriously injured climber would be, nearly impossible without a stokes litter basket, and a crew of well trained rescuers, IMO.
The route DB mentions " the huge old juniper at the top is the easiest way to find this'n. [East]"
Wonder if the "huge old juniper" mentioned was her anchor.
And I shall now refrain from further comment until the investigators post again. No disrespect intended!
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Re: Shelley Windsor...
[
