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killclimbz
Sep 7, 2004, 9:49 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Had he of had a $10 poncho (which seem to be quite popular in Estes during the afternoon t-showers) he might be alive today. Funny how this thread goes from a dead body on the summit of Longs, cause of death unknown, to the potential Life Save of a Ten Dollar Poncho. DMT Relax. I was pointing out that people don't need expensive clothing to be properly equipped.
I have to agree with you. Some simple measures may very well have saved his life. As I stated before, it just blows me away with how little people come prepared. So many times I see people on hot, long summer hikes without any water, or food for that matter. Sadly, it sounds like this person had no idea what he was getting into, and probably never knew the danger he was in, until it was too late.
My condolences to his friends and family.
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crimpandgo
Sep 7, 2004, 10:00 PM
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Just a thought. If they couldn't recover the body due to extreme weather conditions, do you think a few simple measures of clothing would have helped him?
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sarcat
Sep 7, 2004, 10:06 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: annoyance that is often well earned, when some idiot redneck kills himself and gets an area shut down, 'cause he's innapropriately labled as a climber. i realize this is not one of those cases, but hey, it does happen. I'm curious... where and when? Cheers DMT
Back side of Twin Peaks, UT. Some SOB drove his 4x4 off of old mine tailings last year now the Silver Lake access road is closed with a big-a$$ gate put up by the owner and the Forest Service. That road had been open since 1905 when the current owners great whatevers inherited the area and purchased mining claims. I personnally have been using the road since 1984. Where is the Access Fund when you need it.
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killclimbz
Sep 7, 2004, 10:41 PM
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In reply to: Just a thought. If they couldn't recover the body due to extreme weather conditions, do you think a few simple measures of clothing would have helped him? |
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alan_ellis
Sep 7, 2004, 10:45 PM
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In reply to: Just a thought. If they couldn't recover the body due to extreme weather conditions, do you think a few simple measures of clothing would have helped him?
Yes it can. People can climb Denali and Everest in 40 below weather because of the proper clothing. I did a winter 14er and the temp was only 5 degrees. Because of layering and proper clothing, I was comfortable all day, even in the wind and snow.
http://www.jackieandalan.com/images/qalanridge2.jpg
Ascending the east ridge of Quandary Peak, Colorado, February 2004.
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crimpandgo
Sep 7, 2004, 11:00 PM
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alan_ellis,
Not tryin to be sarcastic, but I understand that with the "proper clothing" people can survive under extreme conditions. I read about Everest expeditions all the time.
My remark was to question the $10 poncho concept.
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noshoesnoshirt
Sep 7, 2004, 11:04 PM
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something really weird is going on here. people have been disagreeing throughout this entire thread, but nobody has been a real jerk about it.
is this still rc.com or have i slipped into a parallel universe?
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killclimbz
Sep 7, 2004, 11:09 PM
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In reply to: alan_ellis, Not tryin to be sarcastic, but I understand that with the "proper clothing" people can survive under extreme conditions. I read about Everest expeditions all the time. My remark was to question the $10 poncho concept.
The only thing I can say about the $10 poncho, is that it may have kept him dry, which goes a long way towards warmth, vs wet, cold clothing. It would have been miserable, but maybe survivable. Also, it's not like this person was in mid winter conditions where the temps can go way south of zero degrees.
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matixa
Sep 7, 2004, 11:11 PM
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Yeesh! I can't believe how critical some people can be. My condolences to the man and his family. Sure he made a mistake in not being prepared, however.....
If he was doing the Keyhole route he probably assumed that it wasn't THAT hard. I did Longs when I was in GREAT shape and it kicked my ass. I did Clarks Arrow which isn't much harder than Keyhole and since then all I've heard is how easy Longs is (it was compared to Torreys). Maybe he heard the same.
"Climber"- Does anyone know what route he was taking? Granted, since he already lived in Colorodo he was somewhat acclimated to the altitude of Longs. But, I would say that Longs isn't your typical "hike".
I also add...........has everyone here always bailed on a route when, in retrospect, they know they should have bailed?
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killclimbz
Sep 7, 2004, 11:17 PM
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In reply to: Yeesh! I can't believe how critical some people can be. My condolences to the man and his family. Sure he made a mistake in not being prepared, however..... If he was doing the Keyhole route he probably assumed that it wasn't THAT hard. I did Longs when I was in GREAT shape and it kicked my ass. I did Clarks Arrow which isn't much harder than Keyhole and since then all I've heard is how easy Longs is (it was compared to Torreys). Maybe he heard the same. "Climber"- Does anyone know what route he was taking? Granted, since he already lived in Colorodo he was somewhat acclimated to the altitude of Longs. But, I would say that Longs isn't your typical "hike". I also add...........has everyone here always bailed on a route when, in retrospect, they know they should have bailed?
For one Torreys is a much easier hike/climb than Longs. I'm hoping you just Juxtaposed the two.
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crimpandgo
Sep 7, 2004, 11:25 PM
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killclimbz wrote:
The only thing I can say about the $10 poncho, is that it may have kept him dry, which goes a long way towards warmth, vs wet, cold clothing. It would have been miserable, but maybe survivable. Also, it's not like this person was in mid winter conditions where the temps can go way south of zero degrees.
Respnse:
:)
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tgreene
Sep 7, 2004, 11:42 PM
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Capilene
Polypro
Wool
Pile
Knit
or anything other than cotton should always be your first choice when embarking on an expedition... any expedition!
As a xc-skiier and a whitewater guide, I've been exposed to hypothermia more times than I care to have my friends remind me of. I say it that way, because YOU will never see it coming on yourself, and if your companions are also suffering, then you'll all be like a bunch of silly drunken idiots, that are dieing faster than you know. I was once carried off of a river, because I had a very bad case of the stupids, and on another trip, it was suggested by my buddies that I get out of my kayak and into a raft in order to avoid tyhe water as much as possible. I love winter boating, but the buddy system has to be checked and rechecked, so that nobody dies!
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climb14er
Sep 7, 2004, 11:57 PM
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<"Climber"- Does anyone know what route he was taking? Granted, since he already lived in Colorodo he was somewhat acclimated to the altitude of Longs. But, I would say that Longs isn't your typical "hike". >
I would assume that being a novice, he was on the 'Keyhole Route' and at the Homestretch when his group separated.
With no emergency gear, no proper clothing, in cold wet winds and in storm conditions, the liklihood of him anyone surviving on the summit is marginal at best.
Longs as many know is one tough mountain, especially on the west side when the weather gets fierce. This guy and his group were totally unprepared. Lucky no one else from the group died. I'm sorry for this guys family and friends.
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matixa
Sep 8, 2004, 12:11 AM
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<>
The Torreys/Grays peaks were compared (in difficulty) to Longs from experienced climbers/mountaineering friends. God, I hope not! It would put me off from climbing any more 14'ers. Even some guide books make Longs sound to be an easy summit save for a one sentence addendum.
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alan_ellis
Sep 8, 2004, 12:40 AM
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I may have missed something in this thread. I never saw/heard anything about a $10 poncho. What I read was that he had a hooded sweatshirt.
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colqueerio
Sep 8, 2004, 1:57 AM
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I usually just lurk, but the callousness, sheer stupidity, jackoffery and Monday-morning quarterbacking of many of these posts is appalling.
My condolence to this fellow, his friends, family, anyone he ever loved or loved him, or whom he touched.
Wear all your Gore-tex, bring your 32 feckin' essentials, GPS-out your coordinates and radio back to basecamp every half hour. It doesn't matter. The mountains kill. They've killed multiple friends of mine; they've, seemingly arbitrarily, killed the best climbers in the world. They will continue to do so as long as we head up there. That is the game. The mountains are indifferent to our passage. One slip on a ledge, you go. One misstep in a storm, you go. One item of clothing left out for weight, you go.
Then, you're gone.
OK, yes, he could have had better clothing, but he didn't. Now, tragically, he's dead. Give the guy a break.
I'm going into the mountains tomorrow morning. Happy and safe climbing. I mean this.
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dingus
Sep 8, 2004, 2:11 AM
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In reply to: Capilene Polypro Wool Pile Knit or anything other than cotton should always be your first choice when embarking on an expedition... any expedition!
Careful with that ax Eugene! Cotton may actually be the best choice for a desert expedition / peak climb, where its capacity to hold water is a GOOD thing. Every dog has his day.
Poly pro in the hot desert wastes your sweat and you get zero cooling effect.
Cheers my man
DMT
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feanor007
Sep 8, 2004, 3:19 AM
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this summer i encountered a delima on another 14er, whether to traverse from harvard and risk impending snow/sleet/rain or to shelve the ego and be content with harvard's 14,420 feet. In the end my dad's first and last peice of climbing advice stuck, turn away and live to climb another day. on the way down i experianced an icy mix that would have made the 3rd-4th class scramble pretty dicy. moral, mother nature shows no mercy, she's not kind, not forgiving. I'm not beating up on a dead man, but every summer i spend in co. i'd say one out of every 4 people are totaly unaware of the inharent danger of the mountians. fianlly, he was last seen at 14K+ feet in early afternoon, presumably on his way up. in my limited 14er expiriance i've always made it a priorioty to eat lunch a good mile ore to into my descent. co. afternoons are way to fickle to screw with. yah hauling out of bed at 2-3 AM sucks, but your alive, and isn't that the ultiment goal of climbing, to come home alive?
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climb14er
Sep 8, 2004, 12:08 PM
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The guy died when he didn't turn around with his other hiking companions and proceeded up to the summit with the storm almost upon him. He got caught up on the summit wearing the 'wrong' clothes with no other clothing or emergency gear to protect him. He had from what I could surmise very little knowledge of reading mountain weather or how to prepare in the event a storm hit. He was up there in cotton and tennis shoes.
People should learn from this otherwise there will be more and more of these fatalities. We're not talking about an accident. We're talking about not being prepared and having the audacity to continue to the summit when his hiking partners all turned back and survived.
I have lost good friends to climbing accidents over the years. All were top notch and totally prepared.
What happened to this guy on Longs will happen to anyone else who attempts peaks like Longs and who know very little about mountains and how to climb them. I'm surprised more and more people don't die like the way he did given all the 'cottoneers' that hike/climb peaks and don't know squat about anything on the high peaks.
As mentioned, I send out condolences to the family and hope that he rests in peace.
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f_thomas
Sep 8, 2004, 1:59 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I will be waiting in anitcipation as to the reason why he died. I read another source where hypothermia was suspected. When are these idiots going to realize that cotton and jeans are a death sentence in the mountains if they get wet.
AMS, HAPE and yes HYPOTHERMIA can and does strike even the well prepared! Everyone travelling in the mountains must face these conditions as a result of the elements and are an objective risk of the environment.
There was a time when I had no Gortex (it hand't been invented yet); my parka was coated nylon and my insulation layer: wool. Trust me - it can get really wet inside a coated nylon parka and one must guard against hypothermia, which can sneek up on you pretty quick. (search for some of the stories of survival on Raineer, Hood, Shasta, etc. experienced by prepaired and knowledgable climbers).
Hypothermia can be quite a painless way to die, but if you have ever had to re-warm a victim in the elements - it's a tough job and there are no guarantee's of success. Learn the signs and treatment! It's a whole lot better to prevent it than to be faced with the race to beat it.
If you see someone who is traveling in the mountain environment and is woefully unprepared - Do them, their family, you and the rescue services a favor and politely and humbly talk to the person. I would rather court anger and rejection than read another news article such as this one. Watch your partners for signs of hypothermia - it doesn't have to be below freezing to occur - just wet (rain or sweat) and a temperature below 55 with winds causing a much lower wind chill factor.
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dingus
Sep 8, 2004, 3:05 PM
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In reply to: What happened to this guy on Longs will happen to anyone else who attempts peaks like Longs and who know very little about mountains and how to climb them. I'm surprised more and more people don't die like the way he did given all the 'cottoneers' that hike/climb peaks and don't know squat about anything on the high peaks.
I understand your points about preparedness. And I agree.
But the assertion that you will die if you dare attempt a 14ner wearing cotton is, well, it doesn't pass muster. And then you acknowledge that people do this all the time and they are not dying afterall.
People can and do summit 14ner's wearing cotton and being totally unprepared. That is a fact. Not an opinion. And they aren't dying in droves, sorry.
Yes, the weather can turn bad and many folks have no clue what that means. But why is this guy a idiot tourist and yet some experienced climber who freezes to death on the side of El Cap in a winter storm, was just unlucky?
If you die due to exposure, you were ill-prepared. Your climbing resume really has nothing to do with it.
DMT
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dingus
Sep 8, 2004, 3:07 PM
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In reply to: If you see someone who is traveling in the mountain environment and is woefully unprepared - Do them, their family, you and the rescue services a favor and politely and humbly talk to the person.
This is great advice and perhaps, aside from climbers reassessing their safety margins, is a positive thing that can come from this sad event.
Cheers
DMT
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ropeburn
Sep 8, 2004, 3:13 PM
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In reply to: Careful with that ax Eugene! Cotton may actually be the best choice for a desert expedition / peak climb, where its capacity to hold water is a GOOD thing. Every dog has his day. Poly pro in the hot desert wastes your sweat and you get zero cooling effect. Cheers my man DMT
Nice Floyd quote.
From someone who made the stupid mistake of wearing poly in the desert, this is sage advise.
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ebelay
Sep 8, 2004, 4:13 PM
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I'm glad that this thread has changed direction to some extent from "this guy is an idiot" to condolences and more productive, logical, heartfelt discussion. To those of you in the "idiot" camp, this man, Sudheer Averineni, that's his name, was a real person who simply made a fatal decision. He was somebody's son, he had a family and he had friends who will never see him again. He was only 26 years old.
Try to imagine, just for a moment if you can, sitting comfortably on your throne at your keyboard, what it must have been like for Sudheer. When did he feel he was in trouble? When did he realize there was no way out? Did he realize that nobody was coming to save him? How did he feel when hypothermia began to set in? When the numbing, primal fear of death washed over him? Did he panic? Did he cry out for help? Or did he simply curl up and wait for the end?
These are the questions that his friends and family are likely asking. I doubt they'd give a damn about your heartless pontification and simplifying the situation and this man down to a single word - idiot. As it has been stated already here, mountains kill people. Experienced, inexperienced, prepared for anything or woefully unprepared - the mountains are unforgiving efficient killers of even the best and most experienced of those who venture into their realm. Mountaineering novels are full of those tales. We should learn from their mistakes, miss their presence and respect their spirit when they are gone. You can trust that if it were you, I'd say the same, regardless of the circumstances.
Condolences to Sudheer's family and friends.
Eric
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sspssp
Sep 8, 2004, 4:24 PM
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In reply to: I'm glad that this thread has changed direction to some extent from "this guy is an idiot" to condolences and more productive, logical, heartfelt discussion.
Yea, the "idiot" line of thought disturbs me too. Maybe I'm being too technical, but most people who do this are "ignorant" not "idiots." It is not lack of intelligence but lack of experience, understanding that does most of these people in. If you were starving in the woods and ate some berry that was poisonous and it killed you--would that make you stupid? No, just ignorant of what is and isn't edible. Now somebody who knows that "cotton kills" and still pushes on with poor clothing and poor weather, well then maybe you could apply the idiot label.
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