I will be waiting in anitcipation as to the reason why he died.

I read another source where hypothermia was suspected. When are these idiots going to realize that cotton and jeans are a death sentence in the mountains if they get wet.

That seems a bit harsh. Are the mountains only for those who wear Goretex and Schoeller? All this speculation makes me feel like I'm watching Fox News.

I will be waiting in anitcipation as to the reason why he died.

That seems a bit harsh. Are the mountains only for those who wear Goretex and Schoeller? All this speculation makes me feel like I'm watching Fox News.

I think the term "Harsh" was meant in reference to your lack of compassion for a fellow man. The hiker obviously made a fatal mistake and paid a stiff price. If you think you are completely above making a mistake that could cost you your life, keep on calling the victims idiots :shock:

I would like to extend my sympathies to the man. He made a mistake. I only wish that he would have been lucky enough to live through the mistake to learn for the next time. :cry:

So much speculation. Listen to all of you. Hell, the guy may have taken a tumble or maybe he was blown off the peak like others have, for all we know.

What were his partners wearing? hmmmmmmm?

Of course I think the guy probably met his demise because he was not prepared for the elements. But why don't you people wait until they release the facts before you start arguing with eachother about what he may or may not have done wrong.

Are you people trying to educate or feed your egos?

I'm just trying to feed my ego...

From the Denver Post, 9/7/04:

ROCKY MTN. NATIONAL PARK

Lost climber's body found on Longs Peak.

I am sorry that this happened but it seems that so many people have no sense of self preservation.

Emphasis is mine.
Odd that nobody jumped right on this bit....

When are these idiots going to realize that cotton and jeans are a death sentence in the mountains if they get wet.

There are 6 billion humans and the number is rising annually. This tends to dismiss your point about self-preservation. Most people, the vast majority in fact, have excellent self-preservation senses. We're talking ONE death here.

DMT

Had he of had a $10 poncho (which seem to be quite popular in Estes during the afternoon t-showers) he might be alive today.

Good job! Want a cookie?

But it is wrong to lump all mistakes into the same grouping.

Too many people belive that mountains are happy little things best portrayed protruding from the mist of a hastily painted Bob Ross painting. Incidents like these should remind us all that mountains cannot be kept in styrofoam under heat lamps to be quickly served to our fast food society. Mountains can show their teeth, and will punish arrogance. ..

Yeah, that's about par for the course. They always call hikers climbers when they're are rocks or peaks within range. That's an easy way to tell that the author IS NOT a climber.

If the mountains punish arrogance then I feel sorry for many folks in this forum. Mountains are actually pleasant, wonderful places to be unless you are trying to take one from an Italian gun position or climb one on an avalanche slope. Making them out to be grim war-chambers is silly and self-aggrandizing.

Here is an astonishing tidbit... when a hiker is hiking up Long's Peak? That hiker is climbing and is therefore a climber.

DMT

Oh! Oh! Oh! I see a window of opportunity to now begin a debate on the fundamentals of climbing vs. the fundamentals of hiking. OH YAY!!!!!

Fact is, you don't know what killed the man. So you don't know what mistakes contributed to his demise. So lumping any mistakes seems a bit... premature.

DMT

You're so smart mother_sheep!!!

But what is a responsible reporter to do? Lost Hiker found dead on the summit of Long's?

What was the hiker doing on the top of Long's? How did the hiker get up there?

It seems to beg more questions than it answers. Climber found dead on Long's pretty much sums it up, eh?

Anyway, I was just poking fun at the aficianado's annoyance at amatuers being labeled as 'climbers.' It's like climbers that get annoyed at technical inaccuracies in commercials and movies. It's so... whatever.

Cheers and no definitions of climbing debates
DMT

If the mountains punish arrogance then I feel sorry for many folks in this forum. Mountains are actually pleasant, wonderful places to be unless you are trying to take one from an Italian gun position or climb one on an avalanche slope. Making them out to be grim war-chambers is silly and self-aggrandizing.

That seems a bit harsh. Are the mountains only for those who wear Goretex and Schoeller?

Can't I get credit for poking fun as well?

And yes, I am smart.

This past weekend myself, my wife, and a friend declined to climb two peaks we drove 16 hours to climb. We did not have proper footwear, ice axe, and crampons to deal with the unexpected snow and ice which fell the day after we arrived. Had we chose to continue anyway, we also would have been idiots. Instead, we drove home 16 hours empty-handed.

O.K. you convinced me, mountains are perfectly safe, as an explosive sarcastic expulsion of smoke blows up your bum. Apparently you must have missed the 'dead body found' part of this discussion.

If the mountains are so pleasant and wonderful, he must have died with a smile on his face, at least he had that going for him, which is nice...

So you drove 32 hours without climbing a thing and you want to criticize others for being unprepared?

Anyway, I was just poking fun at the aficianado's annoyance at amatuers being labeled as 'climbers.' It's like climbers that get annoyed at technical inaccuracies in commercials and movies. It's so... whatever.

Cheers and no definitions of climbing debates
DMT

Driving 32 hours and coming home safe is better than driving 16 hours and being killed. We only would have been unprepared had we attempted the mountain and something tragic had happened. Instead, we chose not to climb. But....yes......I should have packed our boots, crampons, and ice axe for just such an occurance. It was more forgetful than being unprepared.

However, we did salvage the weekend doing Jeep trails. Not as much fun, but we did scope out some other climbing.

annoyance that is often well earned, when some idiot redneck kills himself and gets an area shut down, 'cause he's innapropriately labled as a climber. i realize this is not one of those cases, but hey, it does happen.

I'm curious... where and when?

Cheers
DMT

More details from the AP:

"
Dressed in only a hooded sweatshirt, jeans and tennis shoes, park police believe his death might have been caused by exposure to winter conditions. It is the first death on the mountain this year.

The man's body remained on the mountain, 14,000 feet above sea level, for a second night Sunday because blowing snow, freezing temperatures and poor visibility made any recovery attempt too dangerous, Patterson said.


He had been hiking with two other people who decided against continuing to the summit.

"They separated, and he headed up alone," Patterson said.

.

Park staff have recommended throughout the summer that climbers be ready for winter-like conditions.

Trail Ridge Road was partly closed Sunday with reported 2-foot snowdrifts. The alpine visitor center, at 12,000 feet, recorded temperatures in the teens Sunday morning. Daytime temperatures hovered in the 50s."

Funny how this thread goes from a dead body on the summit of Longs, cause of death unknown, to the potential Life Save of a Ten Dollar Poncho.

DMT

Relax. I was pointing out that people don't need expensive clothing to be properly equipped.

I'm curious... where and when?

Cheers
DMT

Just a thought. If they couldn't recover the body due to extreme weather conditions, do you think a few simple measures of clothing would have helped him?

Just a thought. If they couldn't recover the body due to extreme weather conditions, do you think a few simple measures of clothing would have helped him?

alan_ellis,

Not tryin to be sarcastic, but I understand that with the "proper clothing" people can survive under extreme conditions. I read about Everest expeditions all the time.

My remark was to question the $10 poncho concept.

Yeesh! I can't believe how critical some people can be. My condolences to the man and his family. Sure he made a mistake in not being prepared, however.....

If he was doing the Keyhole route he probably assumed that it wasn't THAT hard. I did Longs when I was in GREAT shape and it kicked my ass. I did Clarks Arrow which isn't much harder than Keyhole and since then all I've heard is how easy Longs is (it was compared to Torreys). Maybe he heard the same.

"Climber"- Does anyone know what route he was taking? Granted, since he already lived in Colorodo he was somewhat acclimated to the altitude of Longs. But, I would say that Longs isn't your typical "hike".

I also add...........has everyone here always bailed on a route when, in retrospect, they know they should have bailed?

Capilene
Polypro
Wool
Pile
Knit
or anything other than cotton should always be your first choice when embarking on an expedition... any expedition!

I read another source where hypothermia was suspected. When are these idiots going to realize that cotton and jeans are a death sentence in the mountains if they get wet.

What happened to this guy on Longs will happen to anyone else who attempts peaks like Longs and who know very little about mountains and how to climb them. I'm surprised more and more people don't die like the way he did given all the 'cottoneers' that hike/climb peaks and don't know squat about anything on the high peaks.

If you see someone who is traveling in the mountain environment and is woefully unprepared - Do them, their family, you and the rescue services a favor and politely and humbly talk to the person.

Careful with that ax Eugene! Cotton may actually be the best choice for a desert expedition / peak climb, where its capacity to hold water is a GOOD thing. Every dog has his day.

Poly pro in the hot desert wastes your sweat and you get zero cooling effect.

Cheers my man
DMT

I'm glad that this thread has changed direction to some extent from "this guy is an idiot" to condolences and more productive, logical, heartfelt discussion.

Yea, the "idiot" line of thought disturbs me too. Maybe I'm being too technical, but most people who do this are "ignorant" not "idiots."

I read another source where hypothermia was suspected. When are these idiots going to realize that cotton and jeans are a death sentence in the mountains if they get wet.

Yea, the "idiot" line of thought disturbs me too. Maybe I'm being too technical, but most people who do this are "ignorant" not "idiots." It is not lack of intelligence but lack of experience, understanding that does most of these people in. If you were starving in the woods and ate some berry that was poisonous and it killed you--would that make you stupid? No, just ignorant of what is and isn't edible. Now somebody who knows that "cotton kills" and still pushes on with poor clothing and poor weather, well then maybe you could apply the idiot label.

Once again.... Why must folks on this site be so critical and judgemental of others? I agree that you have the right to free speech, but have some respect for goodness sake. The family of this person could be reading this post. What if it was your family member you were reading about? Think before you type....

"If you are going to be stupid, you had better be tough"

Would you speak the same language if you were talking to the family directly?

On the dry-erase board of my hospital room, I had my wife write, "If you are going to be stupid, you had better be tough."

I think you are right in that they are ignorant rather than idiots. People like that are idiots because

I was an idiot, stupid, and whatever you want to call me. I put myself in danger, put my wife and family through drama.....all because I was an idiot and it could have been prevented by better judgement.

Response:
No the world is not so politically correct, but the internet sure does give an open forum for folks like you to slander other people. Would you speak the same language if you were talking to the family directly? Ahh, stupid question,,, you probably would. :x

It doesn't change the fact that the guy displayed poor judgement and was an idiot.

BTW: How would you describe this guy? Smart?

His only downfall was not knowing something most of us take for granted.
He was probably the guy who chuckled knowingly and thought to himself "what an idiot" when someone brought him a crashed hard drive after opening an E-mail attachment with an .exe on the end.

Different worlds.

My condolences.

something really weird is going on here. people have been disagreeing throughout this entire thread, but nobody has been a real jerk about it.
is this still rc.com or have i slipped into a parallel universe?

Guys, I've let this go on for too long because I'm tired and sick and worn out. A kid died. You discussed it, found the causes for yourself, and then you pass judgement. Knock it off or I lock the thread.

Maligning the dead as "idiots" is beyond the pale in terms of crassness and lack of sensitivity, and marks an all-time new low for this site.

It's not that I am showing disrespect for the dead. That's the last thing I intend to do.

My climbing partner & I were up at Longs this past weekend while this was all going on. We hiked up Saturday mid-day to bivy at Chasm lake to climb a route on Sunday morning. At about 1pm we hit 11k and were socked in, shortly after we past the split to the boulder field we hit the rain sleet mix and the wind picked up. Visibility dropped to about 20 feet. We reached the SAR hut shortly after where I peered at the thermometer and it was roughly 40 degrees. Neither of us had been to Longs before and following the cairns (maybe too closely) we managed to hike right past Chasm lake in the windy, rainy, sleety, socked-in conditions. After getting that sorted out (a jaunt to 12,600'), and doing some useless scouting in poor visibility we managed to get fairly chilled and grabbed some shelter in one of the little boulder caves. It took some dinner & the sleeping bags to get warmed back up. We were dressed 'relatively' appropriate with weather proof shell & pants, hats, gloves, etc and several layers of various synthetic material and still managed to get chilled. All this was about 2k directly below the summit (The Diamond between us and the summit). The conditions were definitely ripe for hypothermia at the top.

After a long night bivy with stong wind spin drifts waking me, we got up about 6am to our gear covered with snow just inside the entrance. A quick reconnaissance mission outside found several inches of snow and 40-60 mph winds. There was really no decision to be made, this wasn't the climbing conditions we were looking for so we bailed. The sun was out, but the wind was relentless all day.

Returning back to the trail head at 9,500', grabbed some lunch, discussed plans, power nap, repacked with different gear, we decided to head back up later in the day in hopes of a chance Monday morning at a different route. Just as we started, up we were quickly turned back at the TH by a ranger informing us that the summit was closed indefinitely due to extreme weather conditions. This sounded fishy and it was. After a little probing, we found out about the tradgedy. The only person to summit on Sunday morning was the park ranger who found the body, everyone else that we had met on the way down had turned at the Keyhole or earlier. Apparently, the other rangers had become fairly worried when they had lost radio contact with the lead ranger on the SAR for a couple hours. Anyway, they were hoping to get a helicopter up there, but the wind was far too strong on Sunday for that.

By Sunday night, conditions had turned almost perfect. We camped at Longs Peak campground that night, 3am start to go tackle another mountain on Monday morning. As we headed out, we couldn't resist checking to see if they had opened the mtn. back up. As we pulled into the parking lot, we were greeted by dozens of people preparing to head out for the summit via the keyhole. Closure signs were plastered everywhere, yet we saw several people depart anyway. I was really surprised not to see a ranger there.

Anyway, we headed off to our target for the day and the weather couldn't have been any better. It was amazing how hard and fast that storm came through.