baja_java wrote:
last week i was reading the Holcombe accident thread, and someone linked that to the SoCal Rock Climbing Meetup Group. i clicked around and saw that there were pictures of Pt Dume posted. i looked and they were from the day that my friends and i went, and there were couple of shots of one friend. he wasn't even the subject, just on the fringe or tiny. the photos being publicly posted, i saved them to my PC. i didn't actually even need to thank you guys, Naro, but i thought i'd sign up and make a post and say thanks whoever that posted those photos, and thanks for letting my friend use one of your TR ropes, even forgoing the point that it was done begrudgingly by that one guy from your group, that it wasn't exactly an offering, as they seldom are as big groups always like to claim. but nowhere in there had i said it was "a fun event." why are you making that up, Naro? can't remember something again? or just fabrication? i know because it wasn't that great for everyone else who had to put up with your circus
then instead of replying in that same public forum, you emailed me, mentioning you're trying to make that a monthly event. that's when i said Pt Dume might not be the best spot for that kind of thing, and gave you a list of reasons. all you could managed was one lame excuse after another on why Pt Dume just has to be the place, that people shouldn't see you as grabbing all the routes because of some greater good your group is trying to achieve. what greater good? endangering people who didn't know any better? helping them to become as clueless and reckless and selfish as you?
on the first climb i was leading that day, if i spend some time near the bottom section to tell two of my friends who had never climbed there what low-angled thin crimping and edging is, that's my business. you already know i'm leading that route, and that its anchor on top was the only one left. to even THINK of snaking it just because the rope isn't already up there yet, that again highlights what a couple of lame asses you are
but in truth, thinking about it now, you were just shocked that other people were actually there earlier than you so you couldn't hog all the routes. look at your group's Event Posting. "Starting at 8:00 am (we have to be there to grab routes)." not everything in life is a free-for-all, you selfish jackasses. our party of 4 actually had two ropes. i told my partner to leave his in the car, that the weekend can get busy, that it'd be inconsiderate to hog routes two at a time, that we could make do with one and just take longer breaks in between. they can testify under oath for this
when i first went over to ask to lead Oceanside Right, the tattooed guy asked me how it was on the Face Routes. i told him a zoo and only going to get worse. i remember his exasperation. again, do the math. 25 people in your group. some will climb more, some less. let's just say 3 routes per person. that makes 75 climbs total, up and down all day, spread across the 9 routes if you hog all of them (which you didn't get to do). realistically, how many non-group climbs can be squeezed in between? what rational mind would ever think that a huge gathering like that would be considerate to all the other climbers there? especially when you know you can just as easily go there in smaller groups on separate days, and especially when there's Stoney Point at about the same driving times from OC and SD if you absolutely have to gangrope rocks to death. and what self-serving asswipe would declare unilaterally that just because your group had fun that day that everyone must have had fun too, that the event went well for everyone? as if everyone elses' day had been brightened by your plague of locusts presence
the only instance i had thought about stepping in was on that contorted belay with the guy's brake hand around his back. but like i've already said, if you could read at all, by the time i saw, his climber soon topped out. end of drama. but you "experienced" climbers were the ones all around him when his partner went up. and remember, that was after your TR stunt while i was on lead, by the way. how could the group not be reckless if their trip leader was that horrendous? and throughout the day, i was giving pointers to my friends. that's the way i like to teach them (and i'm very comfortable using the word teach, because i know what i'm doing for what i'm doing), a ratio of 1 me to 2 newbies at most ever, with a 3rd who's a climbing partner who could help and would belay me on lead so that neither of the newbies would have to. both newbies did only one belay on each other, backed up by me, and then by my partner. and when i was next to the less experienced one, i also took the time to tell her why one way of belay might be preferable than the other. with someone that new, even though they won't have to catch some runout lead fall yet, you have to get it in their head how important that belay is, tell them what a TR fall would feel like, what a lead fall would feel like, how at that first instant when it might feel like all hell's breaking loose you just absolutely have to lock off on that belay no matter what, that that's how the first few would feel like, but with practice it would all become second nature
i spelled out very clearly in the emails that i would be saying things that you may or may not like to hear, about your inconsideration, about your imperative need to climb 25+ at the same time at one small spot and to do it monthly. no, you're not going to like it, because i'm telling you what's wrong with you. but that doesn't mean i was attacking you. i stated facts and the facts showed you and your group are thoughtless and inconsiderate, and completely absurd in thinking that people will just have to understand your gangroping on account of your group's greater goal, which just about any experienced climber would find delusional, except to you and your buddies
then seeing from your emails that it's pointless to deal with you, Naro, i went to stating openly at your group's forum why you shouldn't gangrope Pt Dume each month, and gave the reasons. i'll add some choice quotes from those top secret emails of yours, then trust me, after that, i want absolutely nothing to do with your group. not like i haven't already made that clear in the few posts that i've already made over there, days ago. you know, it's not like i'm calling the climbing police to stop you. you think you're the only bunch of douche bags in the world? plenty of people are like that. i call you what you are. so don't get so upset, what with all those streams of unhinged consciousness and run-on caps. so one person in the world think you're a clueless and reckless and dangerous menace. big deal
as Murf tried to reiterate to you, again, MOST IN YOUR GROUP ARE BEGINNERS! EVEN THE ONES WHO THINK THEY'RE EXPERIENCED! you people seem to think the only beginners are those who've either never climbed or have climbed once or twice. that by bringing them to your events across the internet and getting them roped up and on the rock, you've done some great deed by having given them the gift of climbing, that you've made them climbers and you've made some contribution to the sport that, quite frankly, you people don't even understand. all you've done is put people's lives in danger on those sketch job belays, passing on half-baked "tips" and the idea that your halfass methods and understandings are the norm, and telling them on top that it's ok to be inconsiderate, demonstrating that inconsideration with a heap of recklessness yourself on that asinine TR while i was leading Oceanside Right
by the way, anyone who knows that bolted route knows its anchor lies straight up on top. if you TR the face to the right off of those same anchor, that's an instant penji coming in from the right. even if you don't know the route, from that short description and simple geometry, you can easily see the problem. i told both the tattooed guy and you about this because <1> that's his TR rope still hanging on the anchor (again, he already gave me the okay to lead the route), and <2> i thought by telling you the trip leader you'd convey that to the rest of your group if any of them were to do anything similar. i had no idea if anyone from your group might lead that too. but hell, you couldn't even retain this in your own head, much less to alert the others. what's disturbing about this is how this kind of critical information can go in your one ear and just come right out the other. you would just run right up that TR, you said? not only you never said that, but that wouldn't make any sense. when i was talking to you and the tattooed guy, we were both unroped, standing on the rocks away from the wall, close to the water and looking up while i was pointing out the penji. how in the world then did i end up already leading on the route and you had to pass me on that TR to the right? did i shove you into the ocean and raced to rope up and rack the draws and charge up that lead? and why did you apologize afterward? i'm a pretty easy going guy. once you had said you're sorry, fine, done, despite the dubious "i had no idea you were there" that went with that "sorry." i was there to enjoy the day, and help my two friends who were there for their first time on outside rock, in spite of your circus. even trying to make up stuff now, you do a halfass job at it, Naro, just like your halfass job of trying to become a "climber." and oh, you forgot that the people on the TR to the left of Oceanside Right are all from your own group. no penji from them because their anchor wasn't directly above my route. but now you want to blame them for an imaginary penji from their direction? great, put that in your Event Postings too: BEGINNERS, COME CLIMB AND LEARN FROM OTHER BEGINNERS WHO THINK THEY'RE EXPERIENCED, AND BE EXPECTED TO TAKE THE BLAME IF YOUR TRIP LEADER NARO SCREWS UP ROYALLY. yeah, that'll go over real well. but you should actually. it's only the truth. see how many would rush to sign up then
about Holcombe, not like some of us don't already have a good idea about what happened. i have many copies of ANAM. pretty sure the word "INEXPERIENCE" will be in bold caps in that incident's title, though that would hardly sum up the ridiculous actual operating circumstances of your group
most people here actually don't even know me, as i don't post that regularly, nor am i part of the Community scene. people aren't turning on you because of the star next to my username. it's just THAT OBVIOUS that you are that lame, and downright dangerous
Sean
