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danpayne
Oct 19, 2004, 7:24 PM
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Hey all, just got back from the McDowells today. Svens Slab needs a good bolt chopper. Someone has put some TERRIBLE bolts in places they don't need to be. They aren't even Climbing bolts. just sh1t chain in places it shouldn't be. Its UNSAFE and someone is going to get hurt around there. I would do it, but I don't know the area well enough, and would prefer someone with more knowledge do it. The area is that tree place about 110' feet off the deck of quaker oats. You've got that bomber eye bolt that AMC put there and then a few feet below that you have these manky chains. Any input anyone?
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caughtinside
Oct 19, 2004, 7:26 PM
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What is with the call for bolt choppers lately?
Doesn't anyone do anything themselves? Good thing we've got RC.com to whip up everyone into a frenzy.
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danpayne
Oct 19, 2004, 7:28 PM
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I explained that, I would not trust myself to make any mods to the routes. but I do know there is some manky sh1t out there that someone will get hurt on if no one does anything about it.
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caughtinside
Oct 19, 2004, 7:31 PM
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well, if you feel you're not 'qualified' to unscrew a nut from a bolt, I might think that you're not qualified to make any kind of determination about the quality of fixed gear, and what should or shouldn't get chopped.
Or maybe you're just another lazy climber?
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danpayne
Oct 19, 2004, 7:34 PM
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Jesus man, tryin to let people know there is some unsafe sh1t up there and you rip me apart. I'm just trying to help out, and you just want to make yourself look big.
Oh, and the gear isn't listed in any of my books/maps. Im guessing its not meant to be there. And, did I mention it looks like Sh1t....
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caughtinside
Oct 19, 2004, 7:37 PM
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letting people know about 'unsafe' conditions
and
Bolt Choppers Needed!
are two different things there, chucklehead.
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danpayne
Oct 19, 2004, 7:43 PM
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Listen buddy, If the guy I went out there with wasn't experienced, we might have actually used them. Maybe I don't know what the correct usage of "Chopping" is. It's mankey sh1t, I can't chop em, Dont know how. My buddy doesn't care. Just wanted to let people know, and now I'm done talking to you. You go make yourself feel important to someone else now.
Ignore.....
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asandh
Oct 19, 2004, 8:00 PM
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:)
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drubt
Oct 19, 2004, 8:19 PM
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In reply to: Listen buddy, If the guy I went out there with wasn't experienced, we might have actually used them.
In reply to: It's mankey sh1t, I can't chop em, Dont know how. My buddy doesn't care.
so the guy that wants to chop them isn't experienced knows enought to know that they are manky but you still almost used em? is that right
and the experienced one stopped you from using em but doesn't care whether other people use em?
strange
hope you figure it all out man it sounds like a rough little problem you gotta deal with
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jimfix
Oct 19, 2004, 8:38 PM
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I can't believe the flack the original post is getting for wanting to remove unsafe fixed gear.
I might add 24' bolt cutters to my rack if people start over bolting at my local crags.
Bolts have two purposes
1) Protecting what can't be protected by natural pro.
2) Making bomber anchors for belay's, and only really necessary if a natural anchor can't be set.
One of my local crags has no bolts, and I hope local climbers lynch anyone who sets any there.
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rradjc
Oct 19, 2004, 8:38 PM
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I'm not familiar with the chains you mention.
As for the bolts - what are you referring to here? From what I remember all of the bolts there are older, a bit rusty and not the heavy duty stainless steel hangars you'll see other places. But they do hold a fall. All the bolts for the routes on that wall seem to be adequately placed, meaning at good rest stances at cruxes and such.
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crimpandgo
Oct 19, 2004, 8:50 PM
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There were no chains on Quaker Oats last time I did it. Just 5 bolts then a fairly lengthy runout to the AMC eye bolt. It is a 5.5 and my guess is someone thought it unsafe and added chains. I can't vouch for the quality of the chains, cause I have not seen them. I know chains were added to the 10a/10B to the right (changes in attitude or something like that) and they seemed like pretty good quality.
Your warning is well noted and appreciated. However, don't yell for bolt chopping. It is a sensitive issue around here
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epic_ed
Oct 19, 2004, 8:54 PM
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Dan, was that you out there on Sunday? Me and my buddy Jeff were over on the 5.7 OW battling our brains out.
Anyhow -- if there are new chains at the top of Quaker Oats, then these are definitely new. That honkin eye bolt is the only fixed anchor at that belay station. The chains must be new -- within the last 8 months. What makes you feel they were unsafe? Location? Quality of hardware? Quality of placement?
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tradmanclimbs
Oct 19, 2004, 9:50 PM
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A poor choice of words. If an anchor is unsafe it usualy needs to be replaced, not chopped. Replaceing unsafe fixed anchors with new stainless steel anchors is a good thing, community service, etc. You should not place new fixed anchors unless doing so by the agreement of the majority of the local climbing community.
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sandbag
Oct 19, 2004, 10:03 PM
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Wow, big suprise, another bolt chopping flame fest. Been a while since we seen one of these..... :roll:
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epic_ed
Oct 20, 2004, 12:09 AM
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In this case, there are about six routes on a slab that all end at the same point at the top of the slab. The AMC glued/installed a HUGE eye bolt there many years ago. It is the only fixed anchor at the top of the climb(s) and was in fine condition the last time I climbed there. There should be no need for those additional bolts, but I'll try to find out more info about who put them there and why.
Ed
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joshklingbeil
Oct 20, 2004, 12:46 AM
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Their have been a number of bolts popping up out their in the Mcdowells. The bolts in question are located about 4 feet down and to the climbers right of the eyebolt. I noticed them out their around june. Thay are 1/2 inch expansion bolts with chains like whats on the Classic Ride The Wild 5.9 at Queen Creek. I think the bolts are solid but offensive. And will be subject for removel. Kinda like the bolt on top of the easy 5.7 Peaches & Cream. I also noticed that some Wanker added bolts to the 5.3 climb more like class 4 to the right of One for the road. I suspect thay are chopped by now. Ahh What we must do to keep our crags free of excess fixed gear.
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rradjc
Oct 20, 2004, 4:32 AM
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If the chains at sven are the same as the chains added to ride the wild, then they're pretty damn bomber. However they certainly aren't necessary, myself, my friends and plenty of others before us had done those climbs over and over without complaint of bolt locations.
In the respect of Queen Creek, I've noticed more bolts and more open 'cold shut's' out there in the last year. The addition of anchors on Ride for instance seems ok I guess, but I'm more concerned with the open shuts being placed on slab type climbs and the like. PM for questions/info, I don't want to change the direction of the thread.... um, what was the direction of the thread?
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curt
Oct 20, 2004, 4:39 AM
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There are probably many old bolts in the McDowells that should be replaced. I did a few routes on Gardiner's wall a couple years ago that had horrific old 1/4" bolts sticking half way out. I don't think they would hold much of a fall.
Curt
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epic_ed
Oct 20, 2004, 4:55 AM
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I'm all for replacing the FA bolts actually on Sven's Slab. You might actually see someone lead a climb over there besides Quaker Oats. The addition of anchors or retrobolting of the slab to add bolts, however, should be (and I imagine would be) met swiftly with the sharp end of a crowbar.
Ed
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joshklingbeil
Oct 20, 2004, 5:22 AM
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Someone recently replaced the bolts on Sinkso & Ego Trip on Sven Slab. Around the same time as the chains were installed.
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tim
Oct 20, 2004, 6:13 AM
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In reply to: I might add 24' bolt cutters to my rack if people start over bolting at my local crags.
WTF?! Seriously, :wtf: Who the hell uses bolt cutters to chop? NO ONE! You've got to be a troll, my ''friend''.
How to rebolt: http://safeclimbing.com/...tion/howtorebolt.htm
Bolts that suck (not an exhaustive list): http://safeclimbing.com/...tion/dangerbolts.htm
For those of you playing along at home, chopping + adding a better bolt = rebolting. The question of what to do when no replacement bolt is called for, is left as an exercise for the reader. But, here is another helpful link.
http://www.acehardware.com/...oxy--pi-1409482.html + some local grit...
I haven't seen that many unnecessary bolts but I have volunteered my time to help replace the bolts on Sea of Tranquility, so I done went and poked around a bit with the tools. Turns out that a hammer and a U-notched LA piton, you can rip out most 1/4" coke-can-tabs as well as many other varieties of jingus. Once I can figure out which bolts are original on the lines I have been on in the Needles, I intend to rip out the new additions and replace the original (and now often horrifying) pieces with something out of this millenium. It is the least I can do after hardmen like Herb Laeger went up there and spent their cash & effort putting the originals in. I enjoy climbing up there and would like to return the favor. But this is not relevant to what's going on at your crag.
I'm ambivalent about chopping, but I thought it might help to at least get some decent information into the discussion. You guys in Arizona can no doubt figure out what needs to be done... just thought it might help to be real sure the doer is well informed.
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danpayne
Oct 20, 2004, 7:54 AM
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In reply to: Dan, was that you out there on Sunday? Me and my buddy Jeff were over on the 5.7 OW battling our brains out. Anyhow -- if there are new chains at the top of Quaker Oats, then these are definitely new. That honkin eye bolt is the only fixed anchor at that belay station. The chains must be new -- within the last 8 months. What makes you feel they were unsafe? Location? Quality of hardware? Quality of placement?
I was actually out there today (Tuesday). I was informed today by Anthony from The Hiking shack, that a lot of manky gear was placed out there this last summer, and he intends to chop it. Not for the ethics of it, but because it is unsafe. And as he put " The new gear was not the intent of the original ascension party" I talked to him about it a little while after posting this. Hes got about 25 years experience so I'll let him take care of them. So problem solved... In my book at least.
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joshklingbeil
Oct 20, 2004, 8:35 AM
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It's gonna be fun to chop those 1/2 inch bolts. All 6 or 8 of them. I look forward to see this Fixed gear get the boot. I think their is a good amount of old hardware out their on climbs like Hard Drivin' & Tumbling Dice. It's abought time to talk to Ficker & Waugh and get permission to replace their old hardware store bolts with some bomber bolts. Those rust streaks are getting longerrr. I hate it when some freeking A$$ feels the need to retrobolt a proud line....Some names come to mind Smeltzer knows what I'm talking about.Someone needs to rebolt Deliverance 11c at Pinnacle Peak before I kill my self on those 1/4 inchers..........
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