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moeman
Jun 5, 2004, 2:05 PM
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So yesterday I was at Rocks State Park and led Vertical, 5.6, and then my partner seconded, cleaning the gear. There are no rappel anchors, so now we need to downclimb the 4th class scramble on the side to get back to Breakaway Ledge. But we need to decide something: what to do with the rope? I had already coiled it. Do I tie it to my back, in the standard butterfly-backpack style, even though it would get in the way during the downclimb chimneys? On the other hand, over the edge is a clean 70 foot vertical drop to a wide, flat, smooth slab of rock. We are the only ones in the park, so if we throw the rope, it will not hit anyone or anything. There are no major ledges, features, or vegetation on or near the route that the rope would get stuck on. Thus, I decide that it will be highly convienient to throw the rope to the base of the climb, and retrive it when we go to retrieve our packs. But should I thorw is uncoiled, and deal with all the tangles that that can introduce. Plus, an uncoiled rope is much more likely to sag on some horn or projection. Or can I just throw it coiled, so it is all ready to strap to my pack as soon as we get to the base of the route?
The end point of this is to ask if it is safe to throw a coiled rope. Lets remove all other factors, such as the chance of the rope getting stuck while falling (disaster, because the only way to retrieve the rope is to solo up to get it), the rope hitting someone or something (ouch, injury, or worse), or the rope landing in something yucky (mud, etc...). Lets just say its a clean 70 foot drop to a smooth, flat slab of rock. Would this damage the rope? I'm concerned abut the impact force when it hits the deck. I know that it is bad juju to step on one's rope, and wouldn't the impact of a coiled rope hitting rock produce a similar amount of pressure, pressing dirt, sand, and who knows what into the rope? Or what about throwing it if it was going to land on dry dirt? scree? snow? or even (eek) sand? And what length drop it acceptable? Nothing longer that 20 feet? 100? 1000? Do you, or would you, throw a coiled rope off the top of a climb?
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howdidshedothat
Jun 5, 2004, 3:21 PM
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To be honest with you, even with factors removed ( which they never are) I still wouldn't throw it and I would endure the incovience of carrying it down on my back.
I am a huge safety nut, and I can't help but not including those factors. Also, you just never know. Hope that helps
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roughster
Jun 5, 2004, 3:42 PM
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Bombs away IMO.
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maracas
Jun 5, 2004, 4:15 PM
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There are even bags for that. Quite cheap too.
Outdoor Research made one (I have it) or still makes one.
I would be more concerned about it getting stuck somewhere, at least down here wind is always a problem.
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sspssp
Jun 5, 2004, 4:19 PM
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Throwing a coiled rope isn't going to do any more damage to it than a lead fall would. If you fall on less than vertical terrain, the rope scraping the side of the rock is going to pick up more dirt/lichen than a rope landing flat on dirt or sand.
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the_antoon
Jun 5, 2004, 4:24 PM
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Probably won't hurt your rope. That being said, this is real life. You can not ever exclude factors like morons at the bottom of a climb or things like that. So I would say just carry it down with you.
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chuffer
Jun 5, 2004, 4:53 PM
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I wouldn't throw it. However, it wouldn't have anything to do with fear of damaging the rope. You never know if someone has just shown up at the base, etc. Regardless, I just don't think I could bring myself to do it.
Regarding downclimbing chimneys, just take the pack coil off of your back and tie the two ends quickly to your belay loop. This way, instead of being on your back in the way and rubbing against the rock the rope is hanging harmlessly underneath you.
My .02 FWIW.
j
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overlord
Jun 5, 2004, 6:46 PM
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wrap it in something an throw it.
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stymingersfink
Jun 5, 2004, 7:21 PM
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In reply to: Nothing longer that 20 feet? 100? 1000? Do you, or would you, throw a coiled rope off the top of a climb?
Last October, 'bout 6 days off the ground, I was enjoying my morning munchies when I heard something whistling through the air. Looking towards the NA wall I spied a coiled rope headed earthbound. It looked like it may have been a haul line, and the thing was falling faster than their empty water bottles, but not as fast as the boulder seen two days earlier. SO... I would say that somebody didn't feel too bad about illegal air delivery from 1800+ feet. (I wouldn't though, and not just for the possible ticket.)
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caughtinside
Jun 5, 2004, 7:30 PM
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In reply to: Bombs away IMO.
Vote 3 for bombs away!
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tech_dog
Jun 5, 2004, 10:42 PM
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I'd uncoil it and throw it just like I was going to rappel, but then let go of the uphill end.
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mackavus
Jun 5, 2004, 10:50 PM
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I am really not sure what I would do... I think I would have to be there... but I really dont think that it would do any damamge to your rope besides getting it a little bit dirty.
That said... fug it... BOMBS AWAY!
Peace.
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yay_chris
Jun 6, 2004, 12:51 AM
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Keep it on you. What if the down climb was too hard... or had an obstacle to overcome like a damp area, or wasps?
I would want the option to rap back to the ground if need be.
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mhh35
Jun 6, 2004, 1:29 AM
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It's your rope and your life
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irockclimb
Aug 23, 2004, 4:16 AM
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Sorry i read it kinda fast. why didnt you rappel or did u mention no rappel anchors. So your not sure to drop it or to climb with it. Hmm id say droping it would be find i mean u drop your rope everytime your rappel. so my guess is it owuld be prefectly fine. But if your worried about get caught on a horn. then lower 1 end to the ground then drop the rest.
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fourdeadpresidents
Aug 23, 2004, 6:31 AM
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My 2 cents... assuming the climb is less then your rope length I would coil it up, as you would for a rap toss. Fix one end to a fixed point and chuck it. Once you have determined one end is safely on the ground undo the fixed end and toss it as well. This eliminates 2 major worries 1.coiled rope damaging its self upon impact (highly unlikely) and 2. rope getting hung up somewhere in flight with one end on the ground you can always pull the rest down.
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kennycardiscrazy
Aug 23, 2004, 7:42 AM
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FOUURRRRR!!
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russoggi
Aug 23, 2004, 8:25 AM
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I would never throw my rope down. It (the rope) is my life and I protect it as such. As somebody said what if the downclimb is too hard.
A rope thrown when abbing/rapping would hit the ground with much less force than a 'solid' lump of coiled rope.
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actionfigure
Aug 23, 2004, 12:02 PM
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Throwing your rope is fine if no one is below you.
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traddad
Aug 23, 2004, 1:34 PM
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In reply to: My 2 cents... assuming the climb is less then your rope length I would coil it up, as you would for a rap toss. Fix one end to a fixed point and chuck it. Once you have determined one end is safely on the ground undo the fixed end and toss it as well. This eliminates 2 major worries 1.coiled rope damaging its self upon impact (highly unlikely) and 2. rope getting hung up somewhere in flight with one end on the ground you can always pull the rest down.
My thoughts, too. Also...why didn't you rap? I'm one of THOSE people who would rather rap than technical downclimb. I have a high CG (i'm 6'5") and always feel a little "unbalanced" when moving down over steep ground, especially with a pack or other weight up high.
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crotch
Aug 23, 2004, 11:17 PM
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In reply to: A rope thrown when abbing/rapping would hit the ground with much less force than a 'solid' lump of coiled rope.
When you toss the ends for a rap, you'll often hear a pretty serious crack as the rope comes tight and the ends whip around and smack the wall. Lot's of acceleration there. Tossing a coiled rope 70 feet shouldn't harm it.
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davidji
Aug 23, 2004, 11:28 PM
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Bombs Away!
I figure you're safer on the downclimb if you're not carrying the rope (unless you might need the rope on the way down). My biggest concern has been being sure I could recover the rope. So far so good.
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davidji
Aug 23, 2004, 11:31 PM
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In reply to: My thoughts, too. Also...why didn't you rap? I'm one of THOSE people who would rather rap than technical downclimb. I have a high CG (i'm 6'5") and always feel a little "unbalanced" when moving down over steep ground, especially with a pack or other weight up high.
Downleading/following can also be a good alternative to rapping. The thing is, terrain that lends itself to downclimbing is sometimes terrain that eats rap ropes.
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davidji
Aug 23, 2004, 11:55 PM
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In reply to: you can always pull the rest down. |
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