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Diphthong
Jul 29, 2011, 8:50 PM
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cracklover wrote: Climbers get priority over rappers. Period. GO
Why, because rappers are black? Why's it gotta be like that?
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damienclimber
Jul 29, 2011, 10:17 PM
Post #27 of 66
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Diphthong wrote: cracklover wrote: Climbers get priority over rappers. Period. GO Why, because rappers are black? Why's it gotta be like that?
Nelly is black... rap down,mac down
Paradise had the fattest ass in those jeans she was the best!
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rangerrob
Jul 29, 2011, 11:56 PM
Post #28 of 66
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Just wondering if the anchors are set up primarily for rappel, or for the belays? Sounds to me like it is a belay anchor. Sorry, climbers have the right of way, typically. Usually it's the climbers getting pissed off that people are rapping down over them. They seemed to be non plussed by it all, so why should you care? You honestly thought there was even the remotest possibility that this guy was going to fall off, Vertical Limit style, and rip your girlfriend off rappel?
I think maybe you've watched one too many Hollywood climbing movies. Just my opinion.
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tH1e-swiN1e
Jul 30, 2011, 12:02 AM
Post #29 of 66
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gmggg wrote: tH1e-swiN1e wrote: Also, climbers going up always have the right of way. Local or not thats climbing etiquette worldwide. Um, that would be right if it wasn't wrong. Downward has priority on mountains and on trails.
Are you serious!? Up always has right of way. Its always been that way on every mountain Ive ever been on. Why would someone lugging a huge pack or pedaling up a mountain have to stop and move over for someone walking down??
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j_ung
Jul 30, 2011, 12:07 AM
Post #30 of 66
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csproul wrote: cracklover wrote: j41182 wrote: Alright guys, here's what happened: I was at a popular crag with my girlfriend a few weeks ago. We just finished a 2 pitch climb. The second pitch was a sustained 5.10+. As I was rappeling down the second pitch (and I arrive at the first anchor) I see that 2 others climbers (local climbers [I'm not local], they're about 50 years old, and I'm 20) just got to the same anchor (they just finished leading the easy 5.8+ first pitch). First reaction: Damn, overcrowed belay stations sucks. Anyways, we're rappeling down, and we'll soon be over with this. As my girlfriend starts rappeling down the second pitch, one of the other guy at the belay station starts leading this same pitch. I said: Dude ... would you mind waiting for my GF to finish rappeling down this pitch .. ?! Because if you fall while climbing, you might fall straight on my girl friend, and it doesn't sound good to me, at all. the climber replied (obviously pissed off): I won't fall. I reply: I don't care if you THINK you won't wall. I don't know you as a climber. You might be a really good climber, but sure as hell this ain't some 5.2, and, even if you're a "good" climber, you COULD fall, and you COULD fall on my girlfriend. Would you really mind waiting for like 2 minutes for her to come down ? And we continued arguing for like 2 minutes, before he finally agreed to anchor onto the first bolt, waiting for my girlfriend to come down. Bottom line:::: Am I paranoying about security ??? Or is it only this guy being a total douche on this one ? Climbers get priority over rappers. Period. You want to rap down onto a leader's head, and it's *his* fault? LAME! GO Bullshit. If rapping down is the expected way down a route, and someone decides to come up behind me knowing full well that I will have to come back down the same way they are coming up, then I sure as hell aren't going to wait for them to finish the route. They decided to climb fully knowing that the party in front of them would have to rap their route. Can you imagine a day on Crimson Chrysalis where everyone going down waited for the climbers below to finish the pitch?! There would still be climbers up there from last year.
5 stars. CC is exactly the example I was thinking of.
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damienclimber
Jul 30, 2011, 12:15 AM
Post #31 of 66
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j_ung wrote: csproul wrote: cracklover wrote: j41182 wrote: Alright guys, here's what happened: I was at a popular crag with my girlfriend a few weeks ago. We just finished a 2 pitch climb. The second pitch was a sustained 5.10+. As I was rappeling down the second pitch (and I arrive at the first anchor) I see that 2 others climbers (local climbers [I'm not local], they're about 50 years old, and I'm 20) just got to the same anchor (they just finished leading the easy 5.8+ first pitch). First reaction: Damn, overcrowed belay stations sucks. Anyways, we're rappeling down, and we'll soon be over with this. As my girlfriend starts rappeling down the second pitch, one of the other guy at the belay station starts leading this same pitch. I said: Dude ... would you mind waiting for my GF to finish rappeling down this pitch .. ?! Because if you fall while climbing, you might fall straight on my girl friend, and it doesn't sound good to me, at all. the climber replied (obviously pissed off): I won't fall. I reply: I don't care if you THINK you won't wall. I don't know you as a climber. You might be a really good climber, but sure as hell this ain't some 5.2, and, even if you're a "good" climber, you COULD fall, and you COULD fall on my girlfriend. Would you really mind waiting for like 2 minutes for her to come down ? And we continued arguing for like 2 minutes, before he finally agreed to anchor onto the first bolt, waiting for my girlfriend to come down. Bottom line:::: Am I paranoying about security ??? Or is it only this guy being a total douche on this one ? Climbers get priority over rappers. Period. You want to rap down onto a leader's head, and it's *his* fault? LAME! GO Bullshit. If rapping down is the expected way down a route, and someone decides to come up behind me knowing full well that I will have to come back down the same way they are coming up, then I sure as hell aren't going to wait for them to finish the route. They decided to climb fully knowing that the party in front of them would have to rap their route. Can you imagine a day on Crimson Chrysalis where everyone going down waited for the climbers below to finish the pitch?! There would still be climbers up there from last year. 5 stars. CC is exactly the example I was thinking of.
exactly- we are smart today
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JoeHamilton
Jul 30, 2011, 12:31 AM
Post #32 of 66
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I'm not too update on this rite off way thing. I do know while I was traversing at the gym a girl was descending and her belayer stoped her as I was coming threw she looked down and said" HI," I stoped, to let her down ,but she continued her statement of "hi, go ahead" This makes me think the climber would have the rite of way. The one on the belay has an easier pause.
(This post was edited by JoeHamilton on Jul 30, 2011, 1:56 PM)
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redlude97
Jul 30, 2011, 12:41 AM
Post #33 of 66
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JoeHamilton wrote: I'm too update on this rite off way thing. I do know while I was traversing at the gym a girl was descending and her belayer stoped her as I was coming threw she looked down and said" HI," I stoped, to let her down ,but she continued her statement of "hi, go ahead" This makes me think the climber would have the rite of way. The one on the belay has an easier pause.
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j41182
Jul 30, 2011, 4:10 AM
Post #34 of 66
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well, thanks a lot for all the answers (didn't quite expect that much).
Precision here: Rappeling was the ONLY way down. No walk off here (sadly).
Anyways, thanks a lot for taking the time to answer this. climb safe .... with proper etiquette! ;)
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jt512
Jul 30, 2011, 4:47 AM
Post #36 of 66
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JoeHamilton wrote: I'm too update on this rite off way thing.
What?!
Jay
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ChalkIsCheap
Jul 30, 2011, 10:11 AM
Post #37 of 66
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tH1e-swiN1e wrote: gmggg wrote: tH1e-swiN1e wrote: Also, climbers going up always have the right of way. Local or not thats climbing etiquette worldwide. Um, that would be right if it wasn't wrong. Downward has priority on mountains and on trails. Are you serious!? Up always has right of way. Its always been that way on every mountain Ive ever been on. Why would someone lugging a huge pack or pedaling up a mountain have to stop and move over for someone walking down??
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Toast_in_the_Machine
Jul 30, 2011, 10:52 AM
Post #38 of 66
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jt512 wrote: JoeHamilton wrote: I'm too update on this rite off way thing. What?! Jay
"I too would like to give my opinion on this right of way thing."
I also speak jacques.
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robx
Jul 31, 2011, 2:44 PM
Post #39 of 66
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I understand worldwide etiquette says climbers>rappel, but wouldn't being a nice person etiquette understand you're being asked something completely reasonable, and that while you are comfortable climbing while someone rappels, the person on rappel might not be comfortable with you climbing?
I just don't get people that would rather be "right" than be "nice".
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bearbreeder
Jul 31, 2011, 3:41 PM
Post #40 of 66
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The prob here seems to be a rapper that isnt confident ... Not the climbers fault
She should use a prussik or get more confident before doing multi raps
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j_ung
Jul 31, 2011, 7:07 PM
Post #41 of 66
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robx wrote: I understand worldwide etiquette says climbers>rappel, but wouldn't being a nice person etiquette understand you're being asked something completely reasonable, and that while you are comfortable climbing while someone rappels, the person on rappel might not be comfortable with you climbing? I just don't get people that would rather be "right" than be "nice".
Agreed. Everything you need to know about climbing etiquette, you learned in grade school.
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caughtinside
Jul 31, 2011, 7:14 PM
Post #42 of 66
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This is another fake issue. I've rapped past leaders all the time, and had guys rap past me while I led. It is commonplace on many routes.
If you're going up something with a rap descent, and you are knowingly following another party, you don't get to complain about people rapping over you. You don't get to complain about people climbing while you rap either, that's just lame.
Be courteous though. Slither the rope instead of chucking it, and give the leader a heads up or wait until they are on a stance before you pull your rap line.
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michael1245
Jul 31, 2011, 8:24 PM
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robx wrote: I understand worldwide etiquette says climbers>rappel, but wouldn't being a nice person etiquette understand you're being asked something completely reasonable, and that while you are comfortable climbing while someone rappels, the person on rappel might not be comfortable with you climbing? I just don't get people that would rather be "right" than be "nice".
exactly
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ckirkwood9
Jul 31, 2011, 9:38 PM
Post #44 of 66
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I'm with the O.P.
The climbers were not being considerate.
the party rap'ing wasn't aware of the climbers until they made it to the belay station, but the climbers were likely aware of the party rap'ing.
The OP was there first, the climbers were sharing the OP's climb, not the other way around.
What is this sense of entitement that some climbers feel?
Ultimately the OP wanted to be sure his partner was safe and It would take her a lot less time to rap than it would for the climbers to ascend.
There's no reason to talk about how long it would take to simul-rap because they the OP wasn't doing that, on the contrary ~ it sounds like the OP willing to let the climbers go before he left the belay station.
Seems like he was being courteous and the climbers were not.
BOO 2nd party.
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A-Bowl
Aug 1, 2011, 2:47 AM
Post #45 of 66
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In this case the leader should have chilled out. It's true that someone leading definately has right away, but only mid lead. I've rapped many times near to leaders, in that situation stay the hell out of the way and admire the climbing till they clip anchors. In this situation the leader taking off mid girlfriend rappel is wrong. He should have waited if you had an issue with it. It's all about timing out there. Stay out of eachother's way. Don't take off from an anchor till people are secure. They started the rap pitch before they started the lead pitch... right of way goes to who went first on what seems to me to be the same pitch, up or down. Although in the real ruff and tumble world, worrying about a leader hitting someone rapping is completely weak.
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cracklover
Aug 1, 2011, 4:27 PM
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re-reading the OP, there's one thing that stands out: no-one saw this coming. What is the shape of the route that you didn't see them leading P1 as you were rapping P2, and they didn't see you on the route as they started leading it?
This is the key issue for me. In general, on a one or two pitch route where the standard way off is to rap, climbers shouldn't start up until the previous party is off (without explicit communication otherwise.) And neither should you rap down onto a leader's head. And if somehow this happens accidentally, the leader should get priority. And yet on this route, both parties screwed the pooch. How did this happen?
It's a totally different situation from a long multipitch route in which the rap route is the same as the climbing line. It would be silly to treat them the same, and wait for a party to complete the entire route before getting on.
In this case, in which there was a party waiting mid climb for you to get off the second pitch, I think it would have been courteous for your gf to let the leader finish the pitch before she started rapping. Then she could have rapped down to you, and you both could have started rapping P1 as the second in the other party started up P2.
But it was already such a mess at that point that no solution would have been perfect.
GO
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bearbreeder
Aug 1, 2011, 5:01 PM
Post #47 of 66
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Just repeat ... The leader seemed to be fine with someone rapping ... The gf was feaked out ... She should use a prussik and not do multi raps until she gets more confident
If the leader is fine with it i dont see the issue
Its not like we can stop climbing every time someone gets freaked out because they dont have the experience on a multipitch
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michael1245
Aug 1, 2011, 5:53 PM
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He never said she was freaked out.
He said that he asked the guy to let her finish her rap before he started leading up...that he was worried about the climber possibly falling on the gf while she rappelled.
the issue was the climber being a jerk. not the girl not knowing what she was doing, or having a prussik.
whatever the case...climbing vs rappelling, old vs young, cowboys vs indians. if someone politely asks you to "wait a minute" and you can't oblige them, you're being a jerk. it's not like he asked them to get off the route. he said "wait for her to finish".
common courtesy goes out the window just because you're climbing? really???
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redlude97
Aug 1, 2011, 6:02 PM
Post #49 of 66
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michael1245 wrote: He never said she was freaked out. He said that he asked the guy to let her finish her rap before he started leading up...that he was worried about the climber possibly falling on the gf while she rappelled. the issue was the climber being a jerk. not the girl not knowing what she was doing, or having a prussik. whatever the case...climbing vs rappelling, old vs young, cowboys vs indians. if someone politely asks you to "wait a minute" and you can't oblige them, you're being a jerk. it's not like he asked them to get off the route. he said "wait for her to finish". common courtesy goes out the window just because you're climbing? really???
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markc
Aug 1, 2011, 6:05 PM
Post #50 of 66
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If I was the climber in this situation and the gf already started the rappel before we were ready to start P2, I probably would have waited to lead. It takes very little time to rap a pitch. You won't have to worry about someone unsure on rappel, or the descending party pulling rope before you're at a stance.
That said, I wouldn't be all that concerned if I was the person on rappel. You can give the climber space. If you're worried about transitioning to being under the person, wait until he's made a clip. You can then pass when a fall would be relatively short.
I'm not much for firm rules in this sort of situation, but finding a compromise that decreases the hassle for all involved. A little consideration either way would have helped here.
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