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s2w
Dec 6, 2009, 3:40 PM
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A common tip I've heard for improving climbing technique is to try to keep your arms straight, to try to support your weight from your skeletal system and not your muscles.
However, my recent experience makes me question this. I have started training with SCC exercises, including aerobic endurance training where you try to climb continuously for 20 or more minutes. I've noticed that when doing this, my focus is on keeping as much weight off of my forearms as possible, and that this seems independent of how straight my arms are. It has much more to do with getting in the correct body position for a given set of holds.
Have others had similar experience with this? Right now I only project sport routes in the low/mid 11 range, which are not too overhanging, so maybe that's part of it. But it still seems like minimizing weight on your forearms should take precedence over keeping your arms straight.
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jmeizis
Dec 6, 2009, 4:44 PM
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I generally tell beginners to keep their arms straight because it helps them not burn out trying to pull themselves up the wall. I usually also tell them to push themselves up the wall with their legs.
In general it is more efficient to keep your arms straight because it uses less muscle groups. It has a lot more to do with your footwork though than it does just keeping your arms straight.
When you're climbing vertical and over vertical stuff it will take more weight off your arms to have your hips as close to the wall as possible, this keeps most of the weight on your feet and off your arms. If you fail to keep your arms extended though you will burn a lot of energy.
By using drop knees and flagging you can keep your hips close to the wall which takes some of the weight off your arms. By keeping your arms as straight as often as possible it keeps you from using more energy than is efficient. The combination of the two things will help you maintain body positions that make it easier to get up the wall and hold onto certain types of holds.
(This post was edited by jmeizis on Dec 6, 2009, 4:54 PM)
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spoon
Dec 6, 2009, 6:34 PM
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Find a pull up bar and time how long you can hang with arms bent at a 90 degree angle. Rest for a minute and time how long you can hang with straight arms. If you can hang longer with bent arms you're probably the only person on earth who can.
It becomes harder to see that clear cut difference when you're engaged in movement that is far more complex than just hanging, like climbing for example. It's not as simple as always climbing with straight arms or never climbing with straight arms. It's probably more productive to approach it by thinking, I should always climb with straight arms, except when I shouldn't. Continue to actively explore your climbing, and you'll figure it out.
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s2w
Dec 7, 2009, 3:55 AM
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spoon wrote: It's not as simple as always climbing with straight arms or never climbing with straight arms. It's probably more productive to approach it by thinking, I should always climb with straight arms, except when I shouldn't. Continue to actively explore your climbing, and you'll figure it out.
Thanks. I have been exploring my climbing technique (aerobic training is a great opportunity to do this) and this is why this question came up. I have been finding that the most efficient ways to do moves (in terms of what taxes the forearms the least) rarely involve having straight arms. Making it a focal point of your technique seems like the wrong approach.
I was given the straight arms tip when I first started climbing and I hear it given to beginners a lot. But I think the benefit in this is more along the lines of jmeizis' point - to get people to think along the lines of not pulling themselves up the wall with their arms, but pushing themselves up with their feet. SCC mentions this too, that climbing with straight arms help you avoid unnecessary work from the arms, but that you don't necessarily want to climb that way.
In general I think straight arms are a training tool, but not something to focus on as a component of good technique.
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taydude
Dec 7, 2009, 4:58 AM
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Okay.... so pretty simple here. If you don't automatically revert to straight arms you are lacking technique. Climbing more will help you a lot more than endurance training. When you climb a lot you start to climb efficiently without thinking about it. Then you won't question why people climb with straight arms.
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lena_chita
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Dec 7, 2009, 4:35 PM
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s2w wrote: In general I think straight arms are a training tool, but not something to focus on as a component of good technique.
You are wrong there.
It would be the same as saying "flagging is a useful training tool, but not something to focus on as a component of good technique"
Of course you don't always have your arms straight when climbing. You don't flag on every single move either.
Good technique is as much about mastering a certain move as it is about recognizing when to apply it for the most efficient movement through the sequence.
And back to straight arms-- get on something overhanging. And then come back and report about whether straight arms feel more efficient, or not.
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Bag11s
Dec 7, 2009, 5:30 PM
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Just go to your local playground and watch a seven year old braciate back and forth on the monkey bars for ten minutes straight. Not many pull ups going on there.
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petsfed
Dec 7, 2009, 5:35 PM
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If you're using the SCC exercises and you're finding that keeping your weight off your forearms has nothing to do with how straight they are, you're not climbing anything steep enough.
Its easy to keep your weight off your forearms if what keeps you from falling off the wall is entirely your feet. As such, its not a meaningful training regimen.
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saxfiend
Dec 7, 2009, 5:42 PM
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s2w wrote: In general I think straight arms are a training tool, but not something to focus on as a component of good technique.
JL
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jt512
Dec 7, 2009, 5:46 PM
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taydude wrote: Okay.... so pretty simple here. If you don't automatically revert to straight arms you are lacking technique. Climbing more will help you a lot more than endurance training. When you climb a lot you start to climb efficiently without thinking about it. Then you won't question why people climb with straight arms.
Why are both your arms bent in your profile photo?
Jay
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hafilax
Dec 7, 2009, 5:55 PM
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Even on vertical to slightly under vertical climbs the straight arm principal applies. It just takes a little more creativity and technique to get the chest and hips against the wall with weight over the feet and a straight arm. You might have to move back and forth on a good hold to alternately rest hands.
When beginners are told to keep their arms straight on vertical climbs they just end up sticking their bums out which is way more strenuous that pulling in but having the weight over the feet. Another theory of mine is that when starting out many people have relatively stronger arms than fingers so for them it is easier to climb with bent arms.
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camhead
Dec 7, 2009, 6:05 PM
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hafilax wrote: Even on vertical to slightly under vertical climbs the straight arm principal applies but is secondary to keeping as much weight as possible over your feet.
fixed that for you.
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jt512
Dec 7, 2009, 6:09 PM
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The OP is getting a lot of silly answers in this thread—some from normally knowledgeable people.
Anyone who thinks that they climb entirely with their arms straight on any angle of terrain, or that it would be most efficient to do so, needs to undergo a major reality check. It is obvious that many moves in climbing require bending the elbows, and this is true no matter how steep the climb. The straight-arm activity in SCC is an exercise to develop body and movement awareness; not a prescription for actual climbing.
Jay
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hafilax
Dec 7, 2009, 6:16 PM
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camhead wrote: hafilax wrote: Even on vertical to slightly under vertical climbs the straight arm principal applies but is secondary to keeping as much weight as possible over your feet. fixed that for you.
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jmeizis
Dec 7, 2009, 10:06 PM
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If you can do a move without bending your arms then when is it less efficient to do so?
I can think of plenty of moves where it's faster to just lock off and do the move, thus more efficient overall but most of the time you will use less energy by keeping your arms straight.
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jmeizis
Dec 7, 2009, 10:47 PM
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You don't bend your arm to do every move though. At least I hope not. The only time I bend my arms is because a move is reachy and I can't find footholds that don't move my weight away from the wall. Either that or I need to bend my arm to maintain a direction of force that allows me to hold onto something which usually means the hold is down near my center of gravity.
In general I think it's more efficient to avoid bending your arm although it's not always possible or the most efficient.
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IsayAutumn
Dec 7, 2009, 10:55 PM
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In my own personal experience, I find that keeping my arms straight when possible is most efficient. This does not mean that I actually execute climbing moves with straight arms. As jt512 says, you would be hard pressed to find many moves that you can actually do with completely straight arms.
However, when you are forced to hang with a significant portion of your body weight on your arms, it seems easier to do this with arms straight rather than bent. This tends to happen more on overhanging routes, when it is difficult to find rests where your legs take most of your body weight. To maximize the rest that your arms receive (or to minimize the stress on arm muscles), it appears to be easier to hang with straight arms.
I'm sure climbing with straight arms gets overemphasized with beginners. I find it to be useful advice to minimize stress on your arm muscles on overhanging terrain. You probably shouldn't get too caught up in living by these bite size pieces of advice. Be wary of any advice that starts with "always." Learning when to employ the straight arms isn't difficult...just a matter of experience.
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jt512
Dec 7, 2009, 11:33 PM
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jmeizis wrote: You don't bend your arm to do every move though.
On almost every move.
In reply to: The only time I bend my arms is because a move is reachy and I can't find footholds that don't move my weight away from the wall. Either that or I need to bend my arm to maintain a direction of force that allows me to hold onto something which usually means the hold is down near my center of gravity.
You've just described 99% of climbing moves.
Chris Sharma Where are all the straignt-arm moves?
Lynn Hill Where are all the straight-arm moves?
Jay
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hafilax
Dec 7, 2009, 11:53 PM
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I think the whole straight arm thing is mostly about resting. If you look at around 1:47 in the Lynn Hill video she has bent arms while climbing but just as she settles onto the hold to clip you see her arm go straight and it stays straight as she goes through the clipping procedure. This is what comes to mind when I think of straight arms and climbing.
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jt512
Dec 7, 2009, 11:57 PM
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hafilax wrote: I think the whole straight arm thing is mostly about resting.
One of the first realistic comments in the thread.
Jay
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kriso9tails
Dec 8, 2009, 2:18 AM
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hafilax wrote: I think the whole straight arm thing is mostly about resting.
I've been having a hard time resting on those straight-arm gastons though. Am I doing it wrong?
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jmeizis
Dec 8, 2009, 2:24 AM
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Sharma is a terrible example. If I could campus other peoples projects I wouldn't worry about technique either.
I dunno, I feel like I climb with my arms pretty straight most of the time. Maybe I'm just thinking about before I move and not while I move. I'll try to be a little more aware tomorrow at work.
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hafilax
Dec 8, 2009, 2:49 AM
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kriso9tails wrote: hafilax wrote: I think the whole straight arm thing is mostly about resting. I've been having a hard time resting on those straight-arm gastons though. Am I doing it wrong?
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