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climbingpa
Aug 5, 2009, 12:36 PM
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I'm sure someone has, but my question is regarding using Rawl/Powers premeasured chem studs on overhangs and roofs. Particularlly Powers Fastners Hammer-capsule 3/8" M10 capsules. I've used these on vertical face routes, but never on overhangs. I'm curious as to the safety factor due to the glue running out. I equipped a route the other day that comes out several horizontal roofs. During installation of the roof bolts, some glue ran out. Not that much different than on vertical face routes. Is this a major safety concern or is this normal and me being paranoid? They were drilled to proper embedment depth, holes brushed and blown clean, thoroughly mixed, etc.
Just looking for some feedback from someone with experience in this situation.
Thanks in advance.
(This post was edited by climbingpa on Aug 5, 2009, 12:38 PM)
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philbox
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Aug 5, 2009, 9:04 PM
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I never use glue capsules. I always use the best two pack epoxy cartridges. I hate polyester glues, epoxy two pack all the way, twice as strong as the polyester.
By using the cartridge epoxy you have a lot of control over how much glue you insert in the hole and of course how much spooges out. It has enough consistency that even in horizontal roofs it will stay in place. If you are worried that the anchor will slide out then merely use a very short stick in the hole to create an interference fit.
I prefer rings over U's but each to their own. Of course the rock type is critical on what you choose for an anchor. Really soft sandstone demands a lot longer anchor and the two pack epoxy is ideal for this as it has a consistency such that the glue somewhat migrates into the substrate thus creating a key with the rock. I can't say the same thing for the polyester glues.
I've never liked the capsules due to the inconsistency of mixing and one size capsule fits all type of thing you get.
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chossmonkey
Aug 6, 2009, 11:39 PM
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philbox wrote: I never use glue capsules. I always use the best two pack epoxy cartridges.
And those would be??????????
I've never used the Powers capsules, but have used the Hilti capsules. They were a bitch to get set but I never had problems with the glue running out of the hole.
I would guess that as long as it was a similar amount of glue that came out and the bolt didn't creep out of the hole they are fine. Most likely if any extra glue cam out it would be from the opening and not deep in the hole.
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climbingpa
Aug 7, 2009, 2:24 AM
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Thanks for the feedback.... Tested the bolts today. Seemed to work fine. Pulled on 'em with all my might with a leash, etc. seemed Ok. Figured I'd be the proper guinea pig to try them for real. Took a fall on one of the bolts in question... unintentionally. I get to type another day. Seemed like it was just the excess glue that came out. It set up in mere seconds (to the point of not splooging out anymore).
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philbox
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Aug 7, 2009, 9:22 AM
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chossmonkey wrote: philbox wrote: I never use glue capsules. I always use the best two pack epoxy cartridges. And those would be??????????
Being that I am on the other side of the pond from that which most readers reside I thought I would keep brand names out of the discussion. Being that you asked though, I use Ramset 801 if that means anything to you guys.
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chossmonkey
Aug 7, 2009, 11:20 PM
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philbox wrote: chossmonkey wrote: philbox wrote: I never use glue capsules. I always use the best two pack epoxy cartridges. And those would be?????????? Being that I am on the other side of the pond from that which most readers reside I thought I would keep brand names out of the discussion. Being that you asked though, I use Ramset 801 if that means anything to you guys.
How does that stuff compare with the hilti products?
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adatesman
Aug 8, 2009, 3:45 PM
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acorneau
Aug 8, 2009, 9:24 PM
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Unfortunately, that doesn't fit the recommendation to counter-sink the angled parts of the eye/head into the rock.
See the third bolt here:
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rocknice2
Aug 10, 2009, 1:04 AM
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adatesman wrote: Just FYI, the bolting guide from the RRG (warning- PDF!) has an interesting way to deal with glue on overhanging terrain- a brass collar that is a tight fit on both the bolt and hole and has a slot cut in it. IIRC, it's at the end of the guide. 
Aric
I know your trying to help but these pics have so much wrong with them that it's more of a diservice than anything else.
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adatesman
Aug 10, 2009, 3:18 PM
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chossmonkey
Aug 11, 2009, 12:10 AM
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You didn't notice the weld is pointing down?
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adatesman
Aug 11, 2009, 2:29 AM
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chossmonkey
Aug 11, 2009, 10:40 AM
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adatesman wrote: chossmonkey wrote: You didn't notice the weld is pointing down? No more so than you noticing that the bolt is pointing upward... Kind of odd given the context is dealing with glue in overhanging terrain.   Good point though. My assumption is that he drilled the hole in a handy boulder for ease of demonstrating the collar thing and didn't pay much attention to keying or direction of the eye. I'm probably wrong on that, but it makes me happy to think it. anal thorough.
Even in overhanging terrain the weld should point "up". Its pretty rare that a bolt would go into a dead horizontal roof. Even if it is horizontal or passed horizontal, the force on the bolt will still be back to the belayer a good amount.
Perfect practice makes perfect performance. That photo is like have a picture of how to belay and having the device threaded wrong and the locker unlocked.
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