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rb
Oct 6, 2005, 3:48 PM
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I have been living in Beijing for about a month now and had had some time to explore the natural rock around the general vicinity of Beijing. There is no doubt that the rock exists, unpolished granite in most areas worth a good climb in this area.
I came to China prepared with Jon Otto's guide to climbing in Beijing and thought I was ready to do a little sport and bouldering! Ha Ha! No way...On our first venture out my climbing partner and I went to a place called Hairou. It is described in Otto's book as Green Dragon Gorge...it promises amazing climbs which lead right up a ruined fire tower along the Great Wall!
The problems: the area is enclosed in owned by the government. The park encourages rock climbing, oh but only at it's man-made wall located at the base of a 300m granite crag! All other climbing is trad and not looked upon with favor by the park management.
http://
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vlasik
Oct 6, 2005, 4:26 PM
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I've spent a few weeks in Beijing. Always loved those spicy egg crepes on the street. It is like any other huge city. Crowded and polluted.
I did try to bribe a guard on the Great Wall for access to a closed part of it. Tried US dollars and cigarettes, but he wouldn't take either.
The key to China is getting away from the central government. The further away from Beijing you are the more lax the authority.
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boadman
Oct 6, 2005, 4:49 PM
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Baihe has some pretty nice routes, bolted, free... There's definately potential for a lot more.
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cosmin
May 24, 2006, 10:26 AM
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A climber planning a trip to or arriving in China is faced with two problems: a huge country with a huge deficit of centralized information on climbing available in English. There are some websites, there are some forums where one can gather information from but finding these is a daunting task and invariably, the lucky ones, arrive for a week or two in Yangshuo.
It is true that Yangshuo might seem the capital of sport climbing in China but is not by far the only place to go climbing. Yet, I meet every time people living here for over a year who have no idea about other crags, even if they are one hour drive away or climbing walls next door.
This is the reason I started this forum.
I know the address is not easy to remember, I know there should be a website going with it but one step at the time. I thought that the priority is the flow of information and I would be most grateful if you chose to register and to contribute so we have one place where we can get what we all need: as much information as possible about climbing in China.
Have you climbed in China? Please register and share your information.
Do you plan on climbing in China? Please register and ask for the information you need.
Please pass this link onto anyone interested.
The address is: http://www.hostingphpbb.com/forum/climbinginchina.html
Thank you!
Cosmin Andron
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t-dog
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May 24, 2006, 1:51 PM
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In reply to: ... The problems: the area is enclosed in owned by the government. The park encourages rock climbing, oh but only at it's man-made wall located at the base of a 300m granite crag! All other climbing is trad and not looked upon with favor by the park management. .... I was half dumbfounded and half deafened by a screaming Chinese man telling me I had to pay to climb on his rocks. Craziness my friends! Moral of the story. Avoid Beijing for your climbing cares.
Let me clue you in on something, ALL land in China is owned by the government. Who would've known? Maybe it's the fact that it's supposed to be a COMMUNIST country!!! I'm feeling generous today, so I'll clue you in on something else, the average chinese isn't very clmibing-literate. No way!!! So when you show up to do something that looks dangerous (trad climbing) and likely to get yourself killed, I'm not surprised that they aren't overly enthusiastic about it.
And last I checked, I had to pay 25$ just to get into Yos, whether or not I was going to climb anything. So quitcherbitchen!
FYI, China doesn't have crags around every corner like France does. And as far as climbing is concerned, Beijing is in the top 5 places to be in the country for a climber, just ask the chinese climbers. And get used to pulling on plastic, cause there's a lot of that to do!
In reply to: I did try to bribe a guard on the Great Wall for access to a closed part of it. Tried US dollars and cigarettes, but he wouldn't take either.
So for some reason you thought that cigarettes and $s would allow you to get to a closed section of the GW that had a guard?!? Get a f'in clue, learn to speak chinese, and learn the meaning of "saving face". People like you don't exactly help the whole outdoor climbing situation in China for non-locals.
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fearlessclimber
May 24, 2006, 4:08 PM
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we need to take over china, what the hell do they think they are doing, that is reallt the dumbest thing i have ever heard.
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rb
May 28, 2006, 2:27 AM
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t-dog,
you seem angry and ill informed. China is not a communist country where all the land is owned by the government. Someone has lied to you. The People's Republic of China, Republic being the operative word in that phrase holds free and fare elections, although it is true that the people of China do tend to elect from the Communist party on the whole the country is none the less a Republic. In addition the economy is classified as Market Socialist not a Communist economy where the land is controlled solely by the government. In other words the government owns some land and private individuals own some land. School is over.
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miademus
May 28, 2006, 3:12 PM
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i'm sorry for u, but i guess you should stay away from the gov. too risky,lol and not only in china
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ross1500m
May 28, 2006, 3:36 PM
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So for some reason you thought that cigarettes and $s would allow you to get to a closed section of the GW that had a guard?!? Get a f'in clue, learn to speak chinese, and learn the meaning of "saving face". People like you don't exactly help the whole outdoor climbing situation in China for non-locals.
Ask the cronies: You can bribe nearly anyone for nearly anything in this country. I'd say that was a decent attempt. You should have tried renimbi, since it's extra work for the guard to convert your dollars. And in order for both parties to "save face" (avoid embarassment), you could have just offered more and argued about it for a little while.
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el_layclimber
May 28, 2006, 4:24 PM
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In many cases in China, the only way you are going to get anywhere is if you make friends with a Chinese person who shares your interests. They are going to know what you can and cannot do. People with wonderful ideas for things to take foreigners to do are stopped all the time by the state, and given various reasons. You won't change it, the only thing to do is to learn how to get around barriers and when to give up.
A good place to start in Beijing might be the rock wall in ritan park (near the silk market). There is a posting there for local climbing clubs/ outings etc.
Beijing used to have a rock gym/ bar / curry house which unfortunately went out of business. So sad....
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cosmin
May 28, 2006, 4:35 PM
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In reply to: In many cases in China, the only way you are going to get anywhere is if you make friends with a Chinese person who shares your interests. They are going to know what you can and cannot do. People with wonderful ideas for things to take foreigners to do are stopped all the time by the state, and given various reasons. You won't change it, the only thing to do is to learn how to get around barriers and when to give up. A good place to start in Beijing might be the rock wall in ritan park (near the silk market). There is a posting there for local climbing clubs/ outings etc. Beijing used to have a rock gym/ bar / curry house which unfortunately went out of business. So sad....
Welcome to some sense on the thread!!!
we, some of the climbers active in China, put up last week a forum. There are quite a few Chinese as well on it. If we make it work we would have a resource - if not then we can carry on bitching when the only fault is ours for not sharing and putting all the useful BS free info we have in a place for all to use.
my 2 pennyz
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guangzhou
May 28, 2006, 11:47 PM
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I do agree that making friend with the local will get you far in China, of course, this is true everywhere you climb.
Another way to get things done in China is to be a proactive climber instead of a passive climber.
Actively seeking out climbs, climbers, and potential areas will get you much further than posting on any forum. I constantly meet people who live here in Guangzhou, and after a year or so, still don’t know that there’s excellent climbing to be had within a two hour radius.
I haven’t climbed much in Beijing, just two trips. Two different areas and both time I have the opportunity to experience some excellent climbing on some spectacular climbing. The local climbers, both Chinese and expats were very supportive and willing to show me around.
One post above says that the Government in China doesn't own all the land, I think you need to check you facts. I have lived here for a couple of years now; I have looked into "Being Land." Turns out you buy land for 75 years, after which, the land is returned to the government. While 75 years seems reasonable, it's not long enough for me to pass it on to my family members after I move on. Many communist type countries represent themselves as republics, and most of them are, but you need to look up the term republic to understand what it really means. I have a feeling you are misguided about what the term actually means.
Climbing in China is spectacular, with a lot of potential that hasn't been touched. I have climb in every developed area of this country and put up routes in place that never saw climber prior to me. The local have never been anything but helpful to me.
Of course, if you bolt something put the first bolt up high enough that a farmer doesn't steal it or better yet, use a one-piece glue in bolt low on the route.
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fuzzbait
May 29, 2006, 1:40 AM
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In reply to: t-dog, you seem angry and ill informed. China is not a communist country where all the land is owned by the government. Someone has lied to you. The People's Republic of China, Republic being the operative word in that phrase holds free and fare elections, although it is true that the people of China do tend to elect from the Communist party on the whole the country is none the less a Republic. In addition the economy is classified as Market Socialist not a Communist economy where the land is controlled solely by the government. In other words the government owns some land and private individuals own some land. School is over.
His reply was a bit testy but living here for an extended period of time will do that to ya. T-dogs been here awhile, myself 4 years. The one who is ill informed is most certainly yourself. Whoever told you China is not a Communist country is whack. There is one party the communist party of China, CCP.
Free and fare elections?! They brought in rural elections for rural officials only. The way this is done though is that the rural candidates must be approved by the CCP in order to run. In almost all cases there is only one candidate and that individual is hand picked by the CCP. That individual is the one with the most money and the most connections, period!
Free and Fare :shock:.
No private individuals own land. Guangzhou explained it perfectly in his post. 75 year leases from the government. They can take your land from you at any moment when they want to say build a highway or new industrial park. They will not give you fair value for the land just enough. If you argue they send in the cops to forcefully remove you, period. There is nothing you can do, nowhere to run and complain.
As for climbing in China Guangzhou again said it best. There is so much untapped potential here. Why stick around Beijing where you are next door to the heart of the Communist Party stronghold. Go to southern China. Go to the south west it is amazing down and out there and you won't have issues.
The problem is though that once a place gets developed and begins to show signs of having the ability to make money then yes unscrupulous individuals will come in and start charging fees for areas that you developed. They will set up a little park office or they will say you are climbing on our mountain must pay blah blah blah. They will make things difficult and there is no reasoning with them. You gotta remember the Chinese have no long term vision. (This is not their fault though as it happened during the cultural revolution and fucked them up good. Hopefully the next generation will not be so influenced by past negative events.) Unfortunately this leads them to not realize that building better services to promote tourism and make money from accomodations, restaurants ect... Is a much better option than fucking with the few climbers and closing the site down unless you pay fees. Today they can make money from you. Promoting tourism and improvements take vision and long term planning. Not gonna happen! Ah the stories i could tell.
All things said though China is a land of opportunity for foreigners. You want to start your own business and be highly successful in a very short amount of time come to China.
This is becoming quite the rant so I will chill there.
3 more weeks and I will be moving to Yangshuo to climb full time for the next year maybe 2. Any and all is welcome to come and join us on the rocks. I will help any climber to set them up with accommodations, food whatever, and take them out climbing.
See you there.
Joe
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guangzhou
May 29, 2006, 4:09 AM
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Hey Joe,
I hope you enjoy YOungshuo. If you're evr in Guangzhou, let me know. If you can't track me, check with CHinaClimb. They have a rough guidebook of the area I am developing near here.
Limestone towers like Youngshuo but no west street.
Eman
Enjoy
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t-dog
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May 29, 2006, 4:19 AM
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In reply to: t-dog, you seem angry and ill informed.
Angry? Possibly. It gets old really fast having to live with the stereotypes that people like yourself and vlasik create for foreigners in China.
Ill informed? Hardly. I'm not saying I have information on a lot of climbing places in china, far from it. But having countless chinese climbing friends, including top-level competitors, coaches, and industry reps, let's just say I don't have a hard time finding places/people to climb with in China.
In reply to: Ask the cronies: You can bribe nearly anyone for nearly anything in this country. I'd say that was a decent attempt. You should have tried renimbi, since it's extra work for the guard to convert your dollars.
I'm not saying you can't bribe people in China, far from it, :lol: In my opinion his was a markedly flawed attempt, because A) he didn't offer RMB, B) he didn't speak to the guard in chinese, and C) I doubt he went about the whole process in the most tactfull manner.
Props on the website cosmin, looks good. Only bif against it is that it's in English, which will severely limit the number of chinese contributors, unfortunately.
If you're serious about climbing in China, learn chinese. There is a wealth of information out there, especially on chinese climbing forums. Not to mention that the chinese climbers, as with regular chinese people, are a lot more friendly/accomodating to you when you speak their language.
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cosmin
May 29, 2006, 4:32 AM
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In reply to: Props on the website cosmin, looks good. Only bif against it is that it's in English, which will severely limit the number of chinese contributors, unfortunately.
Cheers - the website is to come thanks to Joe and Matt who'll roll their sleeves up pretty soon.
The forum was intended to be in English because this is where it hurts... a centralised info centre
On it there are some Chinese friends climbers who speak OK and good English and no doubt more will join in.
There are plenty good chinese language forums out there if one can read Chinese: www.rockballet.com (Cao Rong Wu is on it), www.gzopenteam.com (A Chen and a band of merry and talented climbers from Guangzhou on it, and some of them joined the English forum which they linked to their site as well), www.adventureatchina.com (the guys in Yangshuo) etc
Join in and let's have the ball rolling. We need info on climbing clubs in Shanghai, walls etc; info on climbinng in Zhejiang, Jiangxi etc It's up to us to have a connected community - noone else would do it for us.
Talking on RC.com is great but most of the people never been, won't ever be in China and if they will, will be maybe for a week or so in Yangshuo. Then, the mountaineers spary on summitpost, some people on UK climbing... Am not sure, if looking to move here, my first port of info for China would be UKclimbing... :D
PS - we have a Spray section too. Bitching allowed there. :) :twisted:
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guangzhou
May 30, 2006, 12:53 AM
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Two more weeks and I'll be back to climbing in Okinawa.
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ter_bee
Sep 9, 2006, 4:07 PM
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gosh. why am i not feeling inspired to go to china?
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cosmin
Sep 10, 2006, 4:17 AM
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gosh! maybe coz' it's cosy to be inspired by sittin' on your butt at the local crag?
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microbarn
Sep 10, 2006, 1:45 PM
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haha, I had quite the opposite reaction from reading this thread. Of all the people that are from china responding none of them are unhelpful. It sounds as though I would be able to set up a 2 month trip with new destinations every week. They sound like really helpful people.
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ter_bee
Sep 11, 2006, 12:39 PM
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In reply to: gosh! maybe coz' it's cosy to be inspired by sittin' on your butt at the local crag?
that's certainly part of it. and my local crag is the red river gorge.
thailand, anyone?
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redlegrangerone
Sep 12, 2006, 3:50 PM
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I am headed to China in two weeks. I am looking forward to scouting out some new areas to climb.
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fuzzbait
Sep 13, 2006, 12:09 PM
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In reply to: I am headed to China in two weeks. I am looking forward to scouting out some new areas to climb.
Where abouts you planning on going?
I finally made it to Yangshuo from Shanghai there a couple weeks ago. Just the other day secured an apartment for the long term. Will be here the next couple years bolting and climbing. If you or anybody else are passing through the area be sure to send me a PM and we can go out climbing together.
The weather here is excellent right now. Great time for sending hard routes.
ter_bee not sure what your on about. Ya China has issues but as for the climbing the scene here is great. You can't beat the costs. My apartment costs me less than a hundred a month for 3 bedrooms a huge living room, kitchen, bathroom and balcony. The food comes to less than a hundred a month as well and the climbing is all very close at hand.
As for Thailand it is an amazing place. Lived on Tonsai in Krabi for 5 months climbing everyday. However, compared to China (climbing in Yangshuo for example) the costs are cheaper and the climbing just as good. Not as many routes here at around 250 but I think that is enough to tide you over for a few days, no?!
You ever make it out this way I will be sure to set you up proper.
Joe
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redlegrangerone
Sep 13, 2006, 5:19 PM
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I will be in northern China. I am staying in Beijing for a couple of days. Then we will be traveling through Shanxi Province for the next ten days.
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