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USnavy
May 11, 2012, 8:14 AM
Post #2 of 22
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Excuse my rudeness, but let me make sure I got this right. You, or rather your husband, is developing a new product and you want us to pay for the production costs? Correct? Why dont you just get a small business loan, that is kind of what they are designed for. It is cool that you are making a new product, but IMO, your headlamp is nothing special, its just an LED lamp with a rechargeable internal battery. There are tons of lamps on the market that are similar. So why should I donate my money to you so you can use it to develop a product that will in turn make you money? Simply because your product is ecofriendly and you are a small business rather than a large corporation?
(This post was edited by USnavy on May 11, 2012, 8:16 AM)
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mojomonkey
May 11, 2012, 1:22 PM
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USnavy wrote: Excuse my rudeness, but let me make sure I got this right. You, or rather your husband, is developing a new product and you want us to pay for the production costs? Correct? Why dont you just get a small business loan, that is kind of what they are designed for. It is cool that you are making a new product, but IMO, your headlamp is nothing special, its just an LED lamp with a rechargeable internal battery. There are tons of lamps on the market that are similar. So why should I donate my money to you so you can use it to develop a product that will in turn make you money? Simply because your product is ecofriendly and you are a small business rather than a large corporation?
I'm not a huge fan of the random posts seeking for money, but you seem overly negative here (and as 20kN in the thread at mountainproject too). Kickstarter is an interesting approach to funding* and their idea is alright, so I don't see it as a big deal to post in this forum. If she bumps it continuously or spams multiple threads, then you can get annoyed.
If you have questions on the benefits to their design and ideas you could probably just ask and they'd likely be happy to present their thoughts. You sort of ask, but more in a rhetorical fashion. Maybe I am biased by your aggressive and know-it-all posting style (where I think your level of aggression is inversely related to your actual knowledge) but you don't seem to be honestly seeking information.
* Which has had some notable successes but is ripe for abuse. I see it as sort of a charity and way to support ideas/projects that you feel are beneficial, though I'd like the projects to be then be more charitable, with Free and Open development that others can pick up and build from royalty free, even if the original project fails.
(This post was edited by mojomonkey on May 11, 2012, 1:36 PM)
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granite_grrl
May 11, 2012, 1:25 PM
Post #5 of 22
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It's also made in France where this one would be made in North America. I know that most people don't care when the American flag is made in China but I come from a manufacturing background where I've a lot of jobs shipped off to China and Mexica and the more we can keep at home, the better IMO.
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billcoe_
May 11, 2012, 4:00 PM
Post #6 of 22
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USnavy wrote: Excuse my rudeness.......
You make that hard to do Navy. The Petzl costs $110 and this headlight will hit 110 lumens.
Speaking for myself, I'd like to thank the ife for giving us the heads up that this is happening, then I can make a choice to participate, IF I WISH.
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steenerbeaner
May 11, 2012, 5:51 PM
Post #7 of 22
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These are legitimate concerns and thoughts. Thank you all for the feedback. To answer the big question of why support a small business...
Kickstarter is a site for people who are doing and making stuff. These are the people who are taking a risk to create. I believe that this country needs more innovators if we are going to compete with the international market. Here in the US we do an awful lot of sitting at desks and exchanging electronic money back and forth, but when ask what we have to show for it, we can not answer. Kickstarter is not for investors, but for people who support innovation and creativity. It is one way to raise the some of the money needed for start-up. VCs and loans are also needed for a small business to get to market, but these venues often hinder the inventors work and are not always used to bring a better product to market. There are many start-ups that get millions of dollars from government grants (coming out of your taxes) that flounder for years on science that is just not sound. Overall, this new headlamp is not meant to be a world changing venture; just a challenge of one person making a great product, trying to do it from the ground up, and have something to add the US economy.
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USnavy
May 12, 2012, 5:43 AM
Post #8 of 22
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mojomonkey wrote: USnavy wrote: Excuse my rudeness, but let me make sure I got this right. You, or rather your husband, is developing a new product and you want us to pay for the production costs? Correct? Why dont you just get a small business loan, that is kind of what they are designed for. It is cool that you are making a new product, but IMO, your headlamp is nothing special, its just an LED lamp with a rechargeable internal battery. There are tons of lamps on the market that are similar. So why should I donate my money to you so you can use it to develop a product that will in turn make you money? Simply because your product is ecofriendly and you are a small business rather than a large corporation? I'm not a huge fan of the random posts seeking for money, but you seem overly negative here (and as 20kN in the thread at mountainproject too). Kickstarter is an interesting approach to funding* and their idea is alright, so I don't see it as a big deal to post in this forum. If she bumps it continuously or spams multiple threads, then you can get annoyed. If you have questions on the benefits to their design and ideas you could probably just ask and they'd likely be happy to present their thoughts. You sort of ask, but more in a rhetorical fashion. Maybe I am biased by your aggressive and know-it-all posting style (where I think your level of aggression is inversely related to your actual knowledge) but you don't seem to be honestly seeking information. * Which has had some notable successes but is ripe for abuse. I see it as sort of a charity and way to support ideas/projects that you feel are beneficial, though I'd like the projects to be then be more charitable, with Free and Open development that others can pick up and build from royalty free, even if the original project fails.
(This post was edited by USnavy on May 12, 2012, 6:01 AM)
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guangzhou
May 12, 2012, 11:43 AM
Post #9 of 22
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Looks like the site has raised over 18,000 USd. Not bad. Actually, I am thinking about making a donation.
Funny Navy, you complain about banks and how greedy they are, but when someone finds a way to avoid feeding banks interest, you complain about it.
On aside note, to the OP, thanks for introducing the site to me. Never seen it before. I'll have a look around it and share it with some friends.
Good luck with your headlamp project. One suggestion, haven't looked at the site closely, but maybe you can offer a free headlamp to anyone who make a minimum donation amount.
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rockforlife
May 12, 2012, 2:58 PM
Post #10 of 22
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Registered: May 14, 2002
Posts: 563
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guangzhou wrote: Looks like the site has raised over 18,000 USd. Not bad. Actually, I am thinking about making a donation. Funny Navy, you complain about banks and how greedy they are, but when someone finds a way to avoid feeding banks interest, you complain about it. On aside note, to the OP, thanks for introducing the site to me. Never seen it before. I'll have a look around it and share it with some friends. Good luck with your headlamp project. One suggestion, haven't looked at the site closely, but maybe you can offer a free headlamp to anyone who make a minimum donation amount.
Check along the side of that page you will see how much you have to give (65$ i think) to get one or more.
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wmshub
May 12, 2012, 11:02 PM
Post #11 of 22
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Yes, $65 gets you a headlamp. I paid that much. I figure that there's a good chance that the lamp will be worth it - as has been pointed out, it looks about as good as the Petzl lamps, but those retail for $110. And it's fun to think I'm helping somebody start up their own business, so it's win-win for me (unless the project goes through, but then the lamps are junk...but you run similar risk whenever you buy anything). Best of luck to the guy doing this.
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edge
May 12, 2012, 11:56 PM
Post #12 of 22
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Registered: Apr 14, 2003
Posts: 9120
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USnavy wrote: mojomonkey wrote: USnavy wrote: Excuse my rudeness, but let me make sure I got this right. You, or rather your husband, is developing a new product and you want us to pay for the production costs? Correct? Why dont you just get a small business loan, that is kind of what they are designed for. It is cool that you are making a new product, but IMO, your headlamp is nothing special, its just an LED lamp with a rechargeable internal battery. There are tons of lamps on the market that are similar. So why should I donate my money to you so you can use it to develop a product that will in turn make you money? Simply because your product is ecofriendly and you are a small business rather than a large corporation? I'm not a huge fan of the random posts seeking for money, but you seem overly negative here (and as 20kN in the thread at mountainproject too). Kickstarter is an interesting approach to funding* and their idea is alright, so I don't see it as a big deal to post in this forum. If she bumps it continuously or spams multiple threads, then you can get annoyed. If you have questions on the benefits to their design and ideas you could probably just ask and they'd likely be happy to present their thoughts. You sort of ask, but more in a rhetorical fashion. Maybe I am biased by your aggressive and know-it-all posting style (where I think your level of aggression is inversely related to your actual knowledge) but you don't seem to be honestly seeking information. * Which has had some notable successes but is ripe for abuse. I see it as sort of a charity and way to support ideas/projects that you feel are beneficial, though I'd like the projects to be then be more charitable, with Free and Open development that others can pick up and build from royalty free, even if the original project fails. I never said it was a big deal. I am just not a huge fan of giving out money to people so they can take my money and use it to make money for themselves, which is what I see happening here. Now, if the OP was marketing the product as a non-profit entity, I would have nothing negative to say.
I see it as pre-buying a quality product for a reduced price, with no risk of losing anything. Should they fail to make the target sum, then no money has been lost, but that doesn't seem to be the case as they will easily hit the $20K goal.
The buyer wins, the designer wins, and the world will have a bright new headlamp with attractive features. Will the designer make money in the future after the first production run? I certainly hope so, and wish him and his new company well.
Love the Wolf power animal shirt, BTW.
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alleyehave
May 13, 2012, 7:56 AM
Post #13 of 22
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Registered: Nov 13, 2005
Posts: 461
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I'm gonna donate just to razzle USNavy, don't bother sending me anything...
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Greggle
May 13, 2012, 11:36 PM
Post #14 of 22
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Registered: Mar 27, 2010
Posts: 228
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USnavy wrote: mojomonkey wrote: USnavy wrote: Excuse my rudeness, but let me make sure I got this right. You, or rather your husband, is developing a new product and you want us to pay for the production costs? Correct? Why dont you just get a small business loan, that is kind of what they are designed for. It is cool that you are making a new product, but IMO, your headlamp is nothing special, its just an LED lamp with a rechargeable internal battery. There are tons of lamps on the market that are similar. So why should I donate my money to you so you can use it to develop a product that will in turn make you money? Simply because your product is ecofriendly and you are a small business rather than a large corporation? I'm not a huge fan of the random posts seeking for money, but you seem overly negative here (and as 20kN in the thread at mountainproject too). Kickstarter is an interesting approach to funding* and their idea is alright, so I don't see it as a big deal to post in this forum. If she bumps it continuously or spams multiple threads, then you can get annoyed. If you have questions on the benefits to their design and ideas you could probably just ask and they'd likely be happy to present their thoughts. You sort of ask, but more in a rhetorical fashion. Maybe I am biased by your aggressive and know-it-all posting style (where I think your level of aggression is inversely related to your actual knowledge) but you don't seem to be honestly seeking information. * Which has had some notable successes but is ripe for abuse. I see it as sort of a charity and way to support ideas/projects that you feel are beneficial, though I'd like the projects to be then be more charitable, with Free and Open development that others can pick up and build from royalty free, even if the original project fails. I never said it was a big deal. I am just not a huge fan of giving out money to people so they can take my money and use it to make money for themselves, which is what I see happening here. Now, if the OP was marketing the product as a non-profit entity, I would have nothing negative to say.
This is the dumbest fucking thing I've ever read.
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guangzhou
May 14, 2012, 3:42 AM
Post #15 of 22
(10490 views)
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Registered: Sep 27, 2004
Posts: 3389
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Greggle wrote: USnavy wrote: mojomonkey wrote: USnavy wrote: Excuse my rudeness, but let me make sure I got this right. You, or rather your husband, is developing a new product and you want us to pay for the production costs? Correct? Why dont you just get a small business loan, that is kind of what they are designed for. It is cool that you are making a new product, but IMO, your headlamp is nothing special, its just an LED lamp with a rechargeable internal battery. There are tons of lamps on the market that are similar. So why should I donate my money to you so you can use it to develop a product that will in turn make you money? Simply because your product is ecofriendly and you are a small business rather than a large corporation? I'm not a huge fan of the random posts seeking for money, but you seem overly negative here (and as 20kN in the thread at mountainproject too). Kickstarter is an interesting approach to funding* and their idea is alright, so I don't see it as a big deal to post in this forum. If she bumps it continuously or spams multiple threads, then you can get annoyed. If you have questions on the benefits to their design and ideas you could probably just ask and they'd likely be happy to present their thoughts. You sort of ask, but more in a rhetorical fashion. Maybe I am biased by your aggressive and know-it-all posting style (where I think your level of aggression is inversely related to your actual knowledge) but you don't seem to be honestly seeking information. * Which has had some notable successes but is ripe for abuse. I see it as sort of a charity and way to support ideas/projects that you feel are beneficial, though I'd like the projects to be then be more charitable, with Free and Open development that others can pick up and build from royalty free, even if the original project fails. I never said it was a big deal. I am just not a huge fan of giving out money to people so they can take my money and use it to make money for themselves, which is what I see happening here. Now, if the OP was marketing the product as a non-profit entity, I would have nothing negative to say. This is the dumbest fucking thing I've ever read.
Must be written by USnaive.
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tradmanclimbs
May 14, 2012, 12:35 PM
Post #16 of 22
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Registered: Apr 24, 2003
Posts: 2599
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Guangzhou, Speaking of money. Are you still doing the stock photo thing? if so how is it going?
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Sin
May 15, 2012, 12:24 AM
Post #17 of 22
(10329 views)
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Registered: Apr 17, 2007
Posts: 236
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Count me in! I took a break from rc.com, and it's crazy to see some people don't change. Damn, outspoken and abrasive as ever.....
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6pacfershur
May 15, 2012, 1:31 AM
Post #18 of 22
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Registered: Jun 23, 2010
Posts: 254
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edge wrote: I see it as pre-buying a quality product for a reduced price....
curious why this isnt considered ADVERTISING under forum rules? .... "a service or product being offered for trade or sale"
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guangzhou
May 15, 2012, 3:12 AM
Post #19 of 22
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Registered: Sep 27, 2004
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tradmanclimbs wrote: Guangzhou, Speaking of money. Are you still doing the stock photo thing? if so how is it going?
Stock photos are still going strong. I had to slow down a little while building my new gym, but now that things are rolling along, I've been shooting more and more.
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kobaz
May 15, 2012, 3:54 AM
Post #20 of 22
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Registered: Sep 19, 2004
Posts: 726
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USnavy wrote: I never said it was a big deal. I am just not a huge fan of giving out money to people so they can take my money and use it to make money for themselves
You must not be a big fan of capitalism then. You must not like banks, or stock brokers, or just about any business either. Even grocery stores may operate in the fashion you describe.
This kickstarter project is not set up as a charity. If you give something, you get something. Classic buy/sell at its finest.
Speaking of businesses... the startup that I started would not make any money at all if everyone had your attitude. Our customers pay for our product development. We charge for custom changes to the product which funds the development, and then we sell those custom changes to every other customer who wants an upgrade. Hopefully we make a profit in the end. To come full circle: the customers give us money, which we then use to make more money. So far it's been working.
In general, vendors aren't in business for charity.
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Traches
May 15, 2012, 9:30 PM
Post #21 of 22
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Registered: Jan 26, 2012
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USnavy wrote: Now, if the OP was marketing the product as a non-profit entity, I would have nothing negative to say.
How is making a profit dishonest or immoral in any way?
(This post was edited by Traches on May 15, 2012, 9:31 PM)
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Gmburns2000
May 15, 2012, 11:43 PM
Post #22 of 22
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Posts: 15266
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kobaz wrote: USnavy wrote: I never said it was a big deal. I am just not a huge fan of giving out money to people so they can take my money and use it to make money for themselvesYou must not be a big fan of capitalism then. You must not like banks, or stock brokers, or just about any business either. Even grocery stores may operate in the fashion you describe. This kickstarter project is not set up as a charity. If you give something, you get something. Classic buy/sell at its finest. Speaking of businesses... the startup that I started would not make any money at all if everyone had your attitude. Our customers pay for our product development. We charge for custom changes to the product which funds the development, and then we sell those custom changes to every other customer who wants an upgrade. Hopefully we make a profit in the end. To come full circle: the customers give us money, which we then use to make more money. So far it's been working. In general, vendors aren't in business for charity.
In fact, I'm pretty sure Kickstarter explicitly disallows charities (not 100% sure, but pretty sure).
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BosaviHeadlamp.jpg
