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vishnuepie
Oct 4, 2001, 4:30 AM
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does anyone have any news about the guy who has been going round jackson falls and clipping bolts?
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rrrADAM
Oct 4, 2001, 4:32 AM
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'Clipping' bolts means clipping into them. Do you mean 'chopping' bolts ???
rrrADAM
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pianomahnn
Oct 4, 2001, 8:29 AM
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I'm tired of this shit. Leave other people's work alone. I don't care what you say, bolts do nothing to "hurt" rock, nor take from its beauty. You can't even tell it's bolted until you get up close to it.
It's just damn ignorance. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Too late for me to think rationally...
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jds100
Oct 5, 2001, 12:08 AM
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How recent is this? The answer is probably "yes" (assuming you mean "chopping"). On www.climbingcentral.com, there have been at least three forums related to this topic. The one that was specifically devoted to the chopping in Jackson Falls was deleted by the 'webmaster' (a move I totally objected to).
I do want to know if you're referring to something that someone told you about, that occurred awhile ago, or are you talking about something you observed there yourself within the past two weeks? The matter that I'm aware of was handled, including an apology from the chopper, and, again, unless you're talking about something very recent, I think Jackson Falls has been pretty well respected for it's sport climbing (with some trad, too) identity.
Quick background: southern Illinois is a great example of success from years of hard unpaid work by local climbers, forging good relationships with the various land managers and other user groups, to get climbing recognized as an acceptable use of the land. The traditions and standards are respected by the local, state and Federal land managers because someone took the time to educate them about climbing. Bolted anchors at the tops of most climbs has preserved the clifftop flora, and helped minimize off-trail tromping (the one park that prohibits bolted top anchors has suffered mightily on top of the cliff). The local climbers alliance includes people who the land managers officially recognize as speaking for climbing interests, and because of the respectful and honorable and consistent manner in which those interests have been expressed, we've gotten considerable help when some bit of guerilla activity has occurred. With rare exception, these activities were committed by uninformed climbers, not malicious ones.
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andy_lemon
Oct 5, 2001, 12:52 AM
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jds100, I didn't know you went to climbingcentral.com.... I do too.
Jackson Falls has had a history of people arguing about BOLT vs. TRAD. In 1998 I beleive, maybe more recently... There were a group of guys that were going around slashing tirers... Everyone was complaining, cause gear was getting stolen, tires were getting slashed, etc. So the FBI decided to take a van (tinted windows and all) and wait for them to come by one weekend. So here sits the FBI, about noon a car rolls up, 4 guys get out... They slash the cars tires in front of them, then the car in front of it, THEN the fbi's van tires, but no, the FBI still sits pashently. The 4 men then slash another set of tires and the FBI gets out and arrests them... When questioned why they were doing it they replied "because it was such a nice place till the sport climbers started putting bolts everywhere". And the part that hits me right in the stomach is that they were from Evansville, IN. OUCH! My town is full of lunatics... lol
This article was in an issue of "Climbing" mag.
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vishnuepie
Oct 5, 2001, 12:55 AM
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The stuff i heard about was pretty recent, and they didnt chop the entire route, just a bolt or to to make it more dangerous
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jds100
Oct 5, 2001, 1:01 AM
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Please forward whatever you heard to Eric Ulner, regional director for The Access Fund:
eulner@verticalheartland.com
Thanks.
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rrrADAM
Oct 5, 2001, 4:30 AM
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My opinion...
If it can be protected by traditional pro, no bolts should be placed.
If it cannot be protected by traditional pro, then bolt it.
To those who believe that bolts can be placed next to cracks that will accept traditional pro... Why not bolt boulder problems then ??? No need to peel off at 15 feet, you'd already be clipped into 2 bolts.
I have never heard a person who knows how to lead trad and owns a rack, say that it's o.k. to bolt next to a crack. I have heard many people who do not know how to lead trad or do not own a rack, say bolt it. This is their view because they do not trad. Should someone who never boulders bolt a boulder problem ??? How about Midnight Lightning ??? You can get 2 bolts in there then some shuts. Or should the bolter learn to boulder, just as the bolter should learn to trad.
I sport climb also, I am not bashing. But I am disgusted when I see bolts along a crack that will easily accept traditional pro. To me, it's just like the issue of manufacturing/chipping a route. If you can't climb it leave it alone, right ??? If you can't lead it because you don't lead trad, leave it alone for those who can.
rrrADAM
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andy_lemon
Oct 5, 2001, 7:18 PM
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Look, I think what you guys are hearing is old news. I went there in August and found bolts missing on a route that was once there with spray paint on the rock and an arrow pointing twards the old route saying "Gumby's Paradise". The route that had the bolts missing is called Chicken Shack. The person who chopped the bolts was Chris Pewitt. Eric Ulner confronted him about it and he said he would never do it again. Since Eric Ulner has put the bolts back in place.
The reason for the bolts being removed... besides for the route being something like a 5.4, the only access to the top besides for the 11's and 12's that surround it. The damn route is so short that in the 80's people used to boulder it... hence leading to some guy not wanting everyone in the world to be able to gain access to the topout. hence the name "Gumby's Paradise".
But this is old news and has since been taken care of.
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jds100
Oct 6, 2001, 1:02 AM
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To set the record straight on this specific incident: Chris Prewitt chopped bolts from the route because he could climb it on trad gear. It was originally a free-solo access route to the top of the Mr. Jimmy boulder (about 60-70 feet). A local asked the first ascensionist if he could bolt the route for lead, for beginning leaders as a way to get the feel of sport leading at 5.7. Local consensus, including the agreement with the National Forest Service, agreed that bolting it was okay. This was done years ago. Mr. Prewitt was arrogantly uninformed of the history, local standards, and hard-won good relationships that climbers have with the NFS and other land managers in southern Illinois. Via a forum at a different website, a number of us educated him (and anyone else who cared to read it), and I encouraged him to contact Eric Ulner for more info and history of the area. Prewitt has since personally (in person) apologized to Mr. Ulner (a leader of the local climbers advocacy group), and another member of the group replaced the chopped bolts with super long glue-in bolts.
The decision to bolt an easy line was reached by consensus, with, I think, good motive. The decision to chop was unilateral and selfish. Fortunately, this particular matter was resolved positively, with education, and by getting involved with the area, instead of being a self-righteous guerilla.
By the way, this route is not at a crack; this bolted climb is a rare exception to the standards of the area, an exception agreed upon by the climbers of the area. The Prewitt ethic would have logically extended to saying that if "Jim" can free-solo it, then no one should even use gear on it. There are no bolted cracks in the southern Illinois climbing areas. There were some frighteningly bold first ascents put up on trad gear 20-30 years ago, that are still respected today. Jackson Falls is mostly a bolted face sport area, that does have a few cracks that are climbed with trad gear, or TR (if possible), or not at all.
[ This Message was edited by: jds100 on 2001-10-05 18:03 ]
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