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coolcat83
Jan 31, 2010, 2:27 AM
Post #51 of 60
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that is surprising. I'll get one just to play with.
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zeke_sf
Jan 31, 2010, 2:31 AM
Post #52 of 60
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jt512 wrote: johnwesely wrote: jt512 wrote: johnwesely wrote: evanwish wrote: johnwesely wrote: cleethree wrote: high level of want. Medium level. Low level Honestly? Skinny dogbones suck. Jay I realize that people dislike skinny dog bones for grabbing on to, but I really don't get it. It doesn't seem to be any harder to grab a skinny draw. They're definitely harder to grab. Secondly, they wear out faster. You're supposed to replace those skinny runners every two years. Know anybody who does that? Jay
I'm supposed to do a lot of things I don't, yet here I am sucking up oxygen just like you. For the record, however, I do like the fat petzl bones for sport climbing.
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_SLY_
Jan 31, 2010, 6:02 AM
Post #53 of 60
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There's one thing that's throwing me off with these biners, and that is the issue of how they gain their "gate closed" strength.
In every other biner, there is method by which the gate "hangs" off of the nose, from regular noses with their hook method, to keylocks fitting together and, well, keylocked, to the newer "notchless" wires (helium, shield) that have the wire wrap around an (albeit smaller) hook within the hooded nose.
I just can't see how one solid wire is hanging on to the nose in any way, aside from it being hook-bent forward to catch something...but that doesn't facilitate clipping in any way.
So basically, does this biner not have a gate closed strength? Did petzl magically figure out a way to have an insanely high gate open strength?
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Khoi
Jan 31, 2010, 9:23 AM
Post #54 of 60
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_SLY_ wrote: There's one thing that's throwing me off with these biners, and that is the issue of how they gain their "gate closed" strength. In every other biner, there is method by which the gate "hangs" off of the nose, from regular noses with their hook method, to keylocks fitting together and, well, keylocked, to the newer "notchless" wires (helium, shield) that have the wire wrap around an (albeit smaller) hook within the hooded nose. I just can't see how one solid wire is hanging on to the nose in any way, aside from it being hook-bent forward to catch something...but that doesn't facilitate clipping in any way. So basically, does this biner not have a gate closed strength? Did petzl magically figure out a way to have an insanely high gate open strength?
You are wrong about the DMM Shields. The wires on the gate of the DMM Shield twist 90 degrees, thereby holding a small metal yo-yo-shaped cylinder in place. That piece is what latches onto the nose of the biner.
I suspect these Petzl Ange's work via the same principle. I am guessing that the solid wire end with a bulbous lump that latches onto the nose of the biner.
We'll know for sure within weeks.
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qwert
Jan 31, 2010, 11:34 AM
Post #55 of 60
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Khoi wrote: _SLY_ wrote: There's one thing that's throwing me off with these biners, and that is the issue of how they gain their "gate closed" strength. In every other biner, there is method by which the gate "hangs" off of the nose, from regular noses with their hook method, to keylocks fitting together and, well, keylocked, to the newer "notchless" wires (helium, shield) that have the wire wrap around an (albeit smaller) hook within the hooded nose. I just can't see how one solid wire is hanging on to the nose in any way, aside from it being hook-bent forward to catch something...but that doesn't facilitate clipping in any way. So basically, does this biner not have a gate closed strength? Did petzl magically figure out a way to have an insanely high gate open strength? You are wrong about the DMM Shields. The wires on the gate of the DMM Shield twist 90 degrees, thereby holding a small metal yo-yo-shaped cylinder in place. That piece is what latches onto the nose of the biner. I suspect these Petzl Ange's work via the same principle. I am guessing that the solid wire end with a bulbous lump that latches onto the nose of the biner. We'll know for sure within weeks.
qwert
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vegastradguy
Jan 31, 2010, 3:53 PM
Post #56 of 60
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Registered: Aug 28, 2002
Posts: 5919
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Khoi wrote: _SLY_ wrote: There's one thing that's throwing me off with these biners, and that is the issue of how they gain their "gate closed" strength. In every other biner, there is method by which the gate "hangs" off of the nose, from regular noses with their hook method, to keylocks fitting together and, well, keylocked, to the newer "notchless" wires (helium, shield) that have the wire wrap around an (albeit smaller) hook within the hooded nose. I just can't see how one solid wire is hanging on to the nose in any way, aside from it being hook-bent forward to catch something...but that doesn't facilitate clipping in any way. So basically, does this biner not have a gate closed strength? Did petzl magically figure out a way to have an insanely high gate open strength? You are wrong about the DMM Shields. The wires on the gate of the DMM Shield twist 90 degrees, thereby holding a small metal yo-yo-shaped cylinder in place. That piece is what latches onto the nose of the biner. I suspect these Petzl Ange's work via the same principle. I am guessing that the solid wire end with a bulbous lump that latches onto the nose of the biner. We'll know for sure within weeks.
two things- yes, they do have a 'bulb' at the tip of the gate which 'hangs' in the nose to achieve the open gate strength. sorry for not taking a picture, but space was limited in the article.
and, sadly, you wont see these carabiners until probably August or September, as everything at the show is scheduled for a Fall 2010 release.
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shoo
Feb 1, 2010, 6:00 PM
Post #57 of 60
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Registered: Dec 22, 2006
Posts: 1501
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There's some good discussion of these (and a lot of the rest of the new OR gear) over at cascadeclimbers.com.
http://cascadeclimbers.com/....php/topics/935212/1
Interesting points of discussion on the new wiregates:
This version of the "wiregate" requires a spring. Given this, I don't really think this is a wiregate at all. From an engineering perspective, it's really closer to a thin solid gate with a keylock nose latching system in reverse (i.e. the gate dovetails into the nose, rather than the more typical other way around.
The only similarity to a wiregate here is that the gate is thin enough to be called a wire, thus similar in gate weight, which should reduce gate flutter, inertial gate opening, and overall carabiner weight.
It should also be mentioned that there are a total of 6 parts to these carabiners, as opposed to the typical wiregates 2 parts.
There is some thought that on a typical wiregate, the flexing wire action causes metal fatigue. A solid gate style design is not subject to this concern. Personally, I think the metal fatigue argument is BS, especially given the load cycles that will actually be put on a carabiner vs the load cycles required to significantly weaken the material.
Anyway, I'm going to link to some pics stolen from the cascadeclimbers thread:
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acorneau
Feb 1, 2010, 6:44 PM
Post #58 of 60
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Thanks for the pix Shoo.
Although an interesting biner design, it sure loses a lot of the brilliant simplicity of the standard wire gate design.
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shoo
Feb 1, 2010, 8:53 PM
Post #59 of 60
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Registered: Dec 22, 2006
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acorneau wrote: Although an interesting biner design, it sure loses a lot of the brilliant simplicity of the standard wire gate design.
Agreed. It will not be making my rack any time soon, that's for sure.
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Carnage
Feb 2, 2010, 3:08 AM
Post #60 of 60
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Registered: Mar 27, 2007
Posts: 923
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im no ice climber, but i always thought that ice climbers used wiregates because water would get into solid gates and impeded the gate's movement. Wiregates solved this problem by having no spring to get jammed up. If these "wire" gates have all the moving parts that a solid gates have (just rearranged) i think that they will be plagued by the ice build up just like solid gates.
basically, i agree that this is basically not a wire gate. it is a solid gate that doesnt have gate flutter.
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