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justsendingits
Apr 8, 2004, 6:17 PM
Post #51 of 60
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Registered: Dec 29, 2001
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Coylec wrote----
"Daisies are a piece of equipment who time has come and gone, just like hemp ropes. Even this site's aid climbers are moving to adjustable daisies, because they work better"
WRONG!!!!!
http://www.rockclimbing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=46767
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smithclimber
Apr 8, 2004, 8:44 PM
Post #52 of 60
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Registered: Feb 15, 2002
Posts: 338
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In reply to: In reply to: slavetogravity wrote: Take a single one metre sewn webbing runner (the ones popularly used to make long draws) and clove hitch it to your belay loop. Quote: ...clove hitch your “anchor point” through your belt and leg loop point. Quote: ...the modern design of harnesses require you to clove hitch it your belay loop. Now this I have just GOT to see! I think it is physically IMPOSSIBLE to clove hitch a sewn runner to a sewn belay loop. Impossible? No. Practical or useful? Also no. The poster means girth hitch. -Nubbler
Well, if you think it is possible to clove hitch a sewn sling to a sewn beley loop then by all means post a picture. I still stand by my original statement that I believe it to be physically impossible.
If the poster meant girth hitch, then they should have said girth hitch instead of clove hitch on three seperate occasions.
It shouldn't be my job or your job or especially the job of anyone else who might happen to be new to climbing to play the role of mindreader/interpreter when reading someone's post.
If he/she doesn't know what the hell they are talking about then perhaps it's best that they not be the ones giving technical advice.
If one is going to be making suggestions to others, then maybe one better have their sh*t together before doing so. (In my best Walter from The Big Lebowski voice) Am I wrong here? Yeah, but am I wrong?
Now, assuming that you are correct and the poster did intend to say girth hitch (which he certainly may have not) then I know what you may say. You may say "well, it's a small mistake and anyone could quickly figure out that he meant girth hitch when he said clove hitch".
That may be the case in this instance, however what about when they say "it's ok to let go with your hand, it's a Grigri"..... or .... "just clip a sling on the anchor and then clip the other end to the gear loop on your harness and it's all good"? :shock: :shock: :shock:
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coylec
Apr 8, 2004, 11:11 PM
Post #53 of 60
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Registered: Jul 12, 2003
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In reply to: Coylec wrote---- "Daisies are a piece of equipment who time has come and gone, just like hemp ropes. Even this site's aid climbers are moving to adjustable daisies, because they work better" WRONG!!!!! http://www.rockclimbing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=46767 .
I stand corrected. SOME of this site's aid climbers are moving to adjustable daises. Either way, a static fall on an adj daisy is going to mess stuff up - there's not rated for that. And, Josh's buddy didn't say he's not going back to 'em ... in fact, he's sending it to Yates for post-op check.
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rgold
Jun 16, 2005, 5:22 PM
Post #54 of 60
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Registered: Dec 3, 2002
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Here's a copy of a post by Chris Harmston I posted a little over a year ago:
In reply to: Daisy's are weaker than runners because, as the pockets rip out, damage to the webbing occurs at the pocket tacks. In static testing the pockets rip out until you are in the standard runner configuration. The web breaks at the damaged area of one of the pocket tacks. In factor 2 falls with 185 lbs of steel I have seen some break outright without popping all the pockets! I have also seen them hold factor 2 falls and pop all pockets. Dynamic loading is not the same as the slow pull we use for batch testing and rating. Runner materials do not stretch like your ropes does. Use your rope for your primary anchor and use the daisy as a backup and as the adjustability. I have heard reports of daisy's breaking in factor 2 aid falls. The samples I have seen that broke in the field were fairly well worn. Daisy's get worn quite quickly and their strength degrades accordingly. Use your rope as the primary anchor! Chris Harmston (chrish@bdel.com). Quality Assurance Manager. Materials Engineer BS, ME. Black Diamond Equipment Ltd. Posted 12/16/97 rec.climbing
I started using a PAS for multipitch climbs, and nowadays use it almost all the time, although absolutely never as a primary belay anchor. At the risk of repeating what others have said, here's my take on it:
1. Climbing efficiency. As soon as the leader gets in a good piece, he/she can connect to it with the daisy and call off belay, then build/tie into the rest of the anchor. This gives the second the chance to take the leader off belay earlier and get ready to climb, including partially deconstructing the belay anchor and anchoring to it with a daisy.
2. Cleaning efficiency. Sometimes a piece gets stuck and the follower needs both hands to work on it. When possible, the most effective technique is to hang from another piece via the daisy, rather than ask for tension from a remote belayer. This is easier on the belayer, and also avoids the problems that occur because of rope stretch.
3. Rappelling safety. Yeah, you can cobble together the same thing with slings, but it's nice to have the daisy on you and ready to go. I can think of quite a few situations involving exposed third-classing to a rappel anchor when it was very handy to have the daisy (e.g. all the slings pinned under a pack and/or a rope coil).
4. Emergencies. These include unanticipated aid climbing and unanticipated need to ascend a rope. A solid adjustable connection to potential anchors is always immediately available.
I chose the PAS because of its strength, but I find it to be annoyingly too short by perhaps a link. I've started threading a quickdraw spectra sling through my harness belay points and girth-hitching the PAS to that. This has two very minor advantages: first, the harness is not constricted by the daisy girth hitch, and second, the slight extra length allows me to wrap the PAS once around my waist and clip it back to itself.
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muccitwo
Jun 16, 2005, 5:52 PM
Post #55 of 60
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Registered: Sep 15, 2003
Posts: 25
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I use to use a daisy. Now I have a PAS. Needless to say my daisy never makes it out of the closet anymore. It is worth the extra $10.
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blouderk2
Jun 16, 2005, 6:06 PM
Post #56 of 60
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Registered: Jun 7, 2004
Posts: 343
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I own a PAS and I think it works great. Its really easy to adjust when you get to the anchor, and each sewn loop is super strong. I recommend you get one if you can part with the $40 bucks (which comes with a locking carabiner)
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aikibujin
Jun 16, 2005, 6:18 PM
Post #57 of 60
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Registered: Dec 28, 2003
Posts: 408
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Actually the PAS is on closeout sale at many places. For example: Mountain Gear. I guess it's not selling very well. Which is too bad, I really do like mine (bought it at full retail price).
Once I got a cam stuck on a route. It was my first placement off the ground, so I didn't want to sling it long. As the result, it walked. My second couldn't get it out, so we finished the route, rapped, and I lead up the first bit again try to free the cam. I wasn't too far off the ground, but the landing wasn't great. Being a climber with the heart of a mouse, I was not comfortable hanging off just a single piece, especially with all that bouncing I inevitably have to do to get the cam out. Yet I wasn't at a stance to get both hands free to work with a cordelette. With a PAS, I was able to build a 3-piece mini-anchor with one hand quite easily. Of course there was other things I could have done, but having the PAS already girth hitched to my harness made my work simpler and faster.
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norushnomore
Jun 19, 2005, 5:15 AM
Post #59 of 60
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Registered: Nov 4, 2002
Posts: 414
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>> I guess it's not selling very well.
Not really. They simply getting rid of the old model since the newer skinner version is out
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ctardi
Jun 21, 2005, 2:07 AM
Post #60 of 60
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Registered: Oct 8, 2004
Posts: 1278
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A dasie chain is fine for a personal anchor that you won't fall on. I would trust it for it's rated force, as long as you are clipped only to one loop of it, if you clip to two adjacent loops with the same biner, and the stitching breaks, you are no longer attached.
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