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epic_ed
Oct 11, 2004, 11:45 PM
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All the more reason for the retailers to not pull this kind of stunt. They know that a moratorium on gear sales will absolutely equate to a diminished interest in the event, which equates to a loss of potential funds raised to help save QC.
The climbing community will support the effort to preserve the Oak Flat recreation area. I have no doubt. Will the local retailers (and other retailers) support the primary fund raising event that is being held to help preserve Oak Flat? That's the real question here. They should not be discouraging the manufacturers from sponsoring the event over a few petty dollars and a perceived loss of business -- a perception that isn't even based in reality.
Ed
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lidosis
Oct 11, 2004, 11:47 PM
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Ah yes the access issue for Oak Flats is huge, and it is very important for our community. This discussion over this matter is so far just a rumor, I do not believe anything has been set in stone.
I want the PBC to continue as it has with events like the comp, dyno, and the new one arm crank, in addition to the other stuff like vending and drinking. Well these last two are pretty important to me but mean nothing if it is in some rest stop because Oak Flats is closed.
Hopefully we as a community can generate some pressure of our own to keep the event as we know it.
Please visit http://www.friendsofqueencreek.com to help in the fight to preserve this area.
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curt
Oct 11, 2004, 11:52 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: The following was taken from the Phoenix Bouldering Contest website. A large goal for the 2005 Phoenix BoulderBlast will be to raise money for and awareness of Friends of Queen Creek. This non-for-profit organization is dedicated to preserving access to and enviromental destruction of not only all climbing and bouldering but also all recreational activities in the Queen Creek and Oak Flat areas. If Resolution Copper Company proceeds ahead with current plans, much if not all climbing and bouldering and other recreational activities could be permanently lost. Your presence at the 2005 Event not only helps to raise money for this cause but also to keep national attention on this very serious issue. Make every effort to attend this year; Your presence can make a difference! It may be more important to attend this event then to get some cheap gear. Don't lose sight of what climbing may really mean to you just because you potentially might not be able to consume. ~D~ Heres a thought to coincide with your post: By climbing you are a consumer of the wilderness that they want to preserve. If no one climbed, then they would have one less blight on nature, one less group to worry about causing damage to the ever changing and progressing ecosystem.
I am a member of the steering committee of the Friends of Queen Creek. And, the Friends of Queen Creek is primarily a group of climbers. We are backed by the Access Fund, the Sierra Club and other groups who have an interest in seeing that the recreational uses of Oak Flat / Queen Creek Canyon are preserved. It is important to support the PBB even if vending does go away--as the PBB will make a financial contribution to the FoQC from the registration fee of each contestant who enters.
It would be a shame to see this unique recreational resource become just another copper mine.
Curt
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sandbag
Oct 12, 2004, 12:20 AM
Post #54 of 76
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I am a member of the steering committee of the Friends of Queen Creek. And, the Friends of Queen Creek is primarily a group of climbers. We are backed by the Access Fund, the Sierra Club and other groups who have an interest in seeing that the recreational uses of Oak Flat / Queen Creek Canyon are preserved. It is important to support the PBB even if vending does go away--as the PBB will make a financial contribution to the FoQC from the registration fee of each contestant who enters.
It would be a shame to see this unique recreational resource become just another copper mine.
Curt
Understood Curt, I miss bouldering at the Tropics outside of Soldier Canyon Dam, At Horsetooth reservoir too. Maybe the gear companies can just give away schwag via a raffle, easy to do and then they can ease the tension that obviously appears to be building. Seems easy enough, they have enough money in the hold to float a few pieces of gear and the like to ease the dirtbags angst...
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pheenixx
Oct 14, 2004, 2:59 AM
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In reply to: The retailers (and there is no reason to believe these are just AZ retailers) have lobbied the manufacturers very hard to withhold their sponsorship of the PBB, if climbing equipment and clothing sales are allowed at the event.
Thanks for claifying Curt. Altough I'd like to know -- (but that may never happen), WHO "The Retailers" are...I find it unlikely for a group of "smaller" retailers banding together to do this, and also having enough "buying" power to influence "the manufacturers". I'm betting it's REI. Regardless of who -- local, or not; large or small, I doubt it's any online merchant or exclusively out-of-state smaller chain.
We have a REI "C" version satellite store here in AZ (as x-plained to me by their customer service dept), thus - we have the smallest and most limited selection of any REI. I find their protest (if it is them) un-fair and if I find out it is them -- I will be cxlling my membership and avoid shopping there even if's just for slingage (which is all I ever find there anyway).
I doubt my absense of slingage will make a dent into their bottom-line, but out of principle -- this is America -- and we are climbers, most of which do not make 100k / year to spend on top priced merchandise. ALL HAIL to those manufacturers that have given us the discounts so that we may continue to pursue out sport without needed to break into our food (and beer) budget...!!! Here-here..! Scr*w REI or anyone else who attempts to monopolize the retail market. :P
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anykineclimb
Oct 14, 2004, 4:37 AM
Post #56 of 76
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While reading through this post, I kept thinking of the Outdoor Retailer Show. Why aren't retailers protesting sales there? There are ridiculously good deals on stuff there. Is it due to EVERYONE being there, whoring their latest and greatest?
I have yet to witness the PBC myself but I've always heard it to be more of a festival than "just" a competition. To lose the vendors would lose a huge part of the whole experience and would drop attendance big time.
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olejeff
Oct 14, 2004, 4:43 AM
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All this is only hearsay at the moment...right? Maybe we should wait and see..or hear.from someone who really knows. As for folks waiting for the PBB to buy stuff...yeah, right. The PBB only happens once a year. How often do you buy stuff?? I am ALWAYS buying something...usually whether I actually NEED it or not...if I want it, and have the cash...I'm buying it. And I definitely try to support ALL local shops. I've purchased stuff from AHS, OTC, and REI. And have had nothing but GOOD shopping experiences at each business. It's all about the stuff....just wished there were more time to actually use it! I've never been to a PBB..as I'm new (since May) to Arizona...but would really hate for it to not happen.
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tommyguns
Oct 14, 2004, 8:34 AM
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:D :) :D First off. I have found some great deals at the PBB, but lack of vendors won't keep me from attending. Vender participation does however make for happy climbers and an upbeat atmosphere. Hell, everyone loves to talk about the great deals they just got. I will simply bring about 300$ less than I normally do. Since my purchases were predominately impulse, now my 300$ will go elsewhere than climbing gear. Happy now manufacturers? (Or whoever would be responsible for such a policy)... Now all Y'all lose out regardless who is selling your gear. And keep in mind: I, just like a lot of other climbers, live in small towns with no climbing shops. My purchases are mainly Internet or catalog so I buy only that which I need. I'm sure some my impulse $$ will go to www.friendsofqueencreek.com. After all, the lack of access to Queen Creek due to mining rights should be every climbers main concern. Not whether you can get a deal at the PBB that you can find just as easily elsewhere. :D :) :D
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gbmaz
Oct 14, 2004, 2:06 PM
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Having worked for one of the local retailers in question and having staffed their both at the 2003 PBB, I can understand why they were upset. At the 2003 event 5.10 was selling shoes for less than what we paid wholesale (to compete with MadRock) and our 5.10 sales pretty much dried up after that. Kind of sucks to have half a dozen models in stock in full size runs and lots more on preseason orders and NO customers for the product. As for making money selling at the both, almost everything we sold from our booth was at or even below wholesale, just to move some product.
Retailers are just doing what any any business would do, protecting their profits. If you owned a Ford dealership and Ford rolled up with a bunch oif car carriers and started selling cars at dealer cost you would be mightly pissed. People seem to forget that the only reason that most of these climbing companies exist is that small specialty retailers have taken a chance on them at the beginning when they just started.
The shop I worked at has supported many of these companies since they started and it feels like a betrayal to have someone you do tens of thousands of dollars of business with every year come into your neighborhood and dump product at below cost. That threatens the livelyhood of local businesses and the jobs of local climbers who work at those shops. I mean, really do you want these guys out of work and living on your couch? Think of the children......
George
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t-dog
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Oct 14, 2004, 5:31 PM
Post #61 of 76
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In reply to: All this is only hearsay at the moment...right?
Unfortunately, from the PBB website it has no mention of "vendors" and instead refers to them as "exhibitors", which would imply they are not selling anything and only showing new toys. However, they still seem to be planning on having free beer by the Belgian Brewing Co. so at least not all seems to be lost...
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pheenixx
Oct 15, 2004, 3:19 AM
Post #62 of 76
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In reply to: I am a member of the steering committee of the Friends of Queen Creek. And, the Friends of Queen Creek is primarily a group of climbers. We are backed by the Access Fund, the Sierra Club and other groups who have an interest in seeing that the recreational uses of Oak Flat / Queen Creek Canyon are preserved. It is important to support the PBB even if vending does go away--as the PBB will make a financial contribution to the FoQC from the registration fee of each contestant who enters. It would be a shame to see this unique recreational resource become just another copper mine.
Yeah Curt. The matter of "to consume" or "not be able to consume" may just be a mute point that can't be changed and we need to move forward and focus on the current priority.
We will still have the free-beer -- and if our efforts reward us-- being able to keep Queen Crk as it is. I know we will all have stories to tell about "remember when I only paid $$ for - - -" :(
btw - 5.10 shoes were "factory seconds" and the clothing I saw were "samples" or past season items. It's not like the manufacturers were dumping "fresh new" stuff to compete with the retailers. I used to work in retail/wholesale and it was commonly done with nobody squeeking. Why should the climbing shops be any different then any other retailer. Shouldn't MORE retailers be protesting WALMART..! What has that done to mom & pop.
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rock_diva
Oct 22, 2004, 7:41 PM
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In reply to: So the retail shops want manufacturers to come down and advertise product and them say go buy it from this guy not me. As a manufactur I would tell those shops where to stick it. If they want the sales they should shell out for a sponsorship and a booth. There are many small companies in our industry and to expect these individuals to shell out money to canabalize there own sales.
Let me respond from a retailer's point of view, since I am an owner of a local shop here in Phoenix.
First, we did have a booth out at the PBB last year, which we ran with 2 of the manufacturers. My business partner was a volunteer on the PBB staff. We are sponsors at this year's Flapper Fest, in association with Friends of Queen Creek. Our goal is to support the local climbing community, of which I am an active part.
Second, when other posts here have mentioned "pressure from local retailers", be careful of the accusation. People may get the idea that all local retailers are the reason the PBB will not have cheap gear. I, for one, have not pressured Jim at all. Nor do I agree with the statement that they "cannibalize thier own sales.[edited for spelling]" Although I have not been pressuring the PBB to do away with vending, it does hurt the climbing retail community, including myself. You say, screw the retailers... but do you really want to do all your business direct from manufacturers? We are trying to do a service to the local climbing community -- giving them options, being involved in things that matter locally -- but it's tough to survive PBB season, because who can compete with $60 Anasazi velcros?
Third, the PBB does affect retail sales in all of the SW, not just locally. To say a manufacturer should tell their retailers where to "stick it" shows you do not understand retail, or the manufacturers' dependence on retailers...
I better stop my rant, as I don't want to offend anyone. I've been a competitor, a consumer, and a vendor at the PBC/PBB and I can see all points of view. I just ask you to respectfully consider mine.
~Shelley
p.s. oh, and I do protest WalMart...
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curt
Oct 22, 2004, 7:53 PM
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Well, having spent most of the day this past Monday with Jim Waugh, I can offer the following.
1) There will indeed be no vending of climbing equipment at the 2005 BoulderBlast. That decision has been made. This change was necessary, in order to get major sponsors to participate in the event.
2) It was pressure from retailers (and their reps) that caused the manufacturers to take this position. I am told this pressure goes beyond just local retailers.
3) It really doesn't matter if PBB related sales had any factual negative impact on retail climbing equipment sales--or not. The manufacturers are going along with their customers wishes.
But, life goes on and next year's PBB will be improved in many ways. So, I hope everyone will still show up and have a great time.
Curt
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ikefromla
Oct 22, 2004, 8:29 PM
Post #65 of 76
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that will completely change the vibe of the entire event... no? I was intending to shell out the dough and fly back for the pbb this year.. but upon reading this thread, i am questioning if it would be worth it at all. unless i train more... and win. hmmm
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soulsurfer
Oct 22, 2004, 9:28 PM
Post #66 of 76
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No more free/cheap deals! So now the only reason to go there is to pay $60, climb in 90 degree weather and get sandbagged by 10 point problems that are supposed to be VO!
Maybe minning the place is not that bad after all. I need more cams, quickdraws, and biners! I know, I know; it will be mined for copper. So maybe a nice copper counter top then:)
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curt
Oct 22, 2004, 10:02 PM
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Well there's also the beer, and the comraderie, and the beer, and the music, and the beer, and the competition itself, and the beer, and the partying, and the beer...........
And, sponsors will still be there displaying the latest and greatest stuff--just no vending.
Curt
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pheenixx
Oct 29, 2004, 4:27 AM
Post #68 of 76
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In reply to: No more free/cheap deals! So now the only reason to go there is to pay $60, climb in 90 degree weather and get sandbagged by 10 point problems that are supposed to be VO! Maybe minning the place is not that bad after all. I need more cams, quickdraws, and biners! I know, I know; it will be mined for copper. So maybe a nice copper counter top then:)
your a jerk. I would say something else but the tar-pit police might come around, and I'm trying to be nice. :angel:
You obviously don't know enough about QCreek to appreciate it or perhaps it's just not your kind of rock -- either way, yeah - stay away. Queen Creek will be better off without you....
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climbsomething
Oct 29, 2004, 7:10 AM
Post #69 of 76
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In reply to: No more free/cheap deals! So now the only reason to go there is to pay $60, climb in 90 degree weather and get sandbagged by 10 point problems that are supposed to be VO! Maybe minning the place is not that bad after all. I need more cams, quickdraws, and biners! I know, I know; it will be mined for copper. So maybe a nice copper counter top then:) |
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benpullin
Oct 29, 2004, 8:33 AM
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What's minning? Is that when you min?
I know it's petty, just thought it was funny.
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dief
Oct 29, 2004, 12:15 PM
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Simmer down now folks. Put away your pitchforks and torches. No need to get all riled up and lynch the PBB, local stores and manufacturers. Business is business and businesses will do what they need to do to protect the bottom line (no profit - no business). If the manufacturers, et al didn't think this was a good move they wouldn't be doing it. Yeah, sometimes change is a bummer but you either adapt to the changing enviroment or die.
And.....
Help us save the home of the PBB from becomming a big hole in the ground. Support Friends of Queen Creek. Go to www.FriendsOfQueenCreek.com and add your name to our email list.
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pheenixx
Oct 29, 2004, 6:38 PM
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In reply to: ...Help us save the home of the PBB from becomming a big hole in the ground. Support Friends of Queen Creek. Go to www.FriendsOfQueenCreek.com and add your name to our email list.
Ahh ~ Yes, back to more important issues...like....
CURT...I just saw a notice today that "Verm" is now on THEIR side..!!! How can he do this - is he even familiar with the area (he lives in Estes, Co.)..?? Regardless - did he fall and get hit on the head or somethin'..?? Has he sir-cumbed to alcohol poisoning..??
(note* John Sherman, formerly-fondly know as 'verm' is now endorsing the OTHER side pic of him at http://www.boldering.com/...showtopic=2188&st=90) courtesy of bvb.
Please say this isn't so.... :?
BobD1953...Bvb....Curt...somebody..??
Is Bvb correct..? Is he just a "shameless media whore"..??
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pjay
Oct 29, 2004, 7:06 PM
Post #73 of 76
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If the big companies see like this(they lose money through the year because people wait till the PBB to buy cheaper gear). The PBB should let other companies who's products are not sold in stores in the area to be sold at the event. That's if this whole not letting vendors sell their stuff goes through. Just my two cents.
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curt
Oct 29, 2004, 7:17 PM
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In reply to: That's if this whole not letting vendors sell their stuff goes through. Just my two cents.
There is no "if" involved--there will be no vending at the 2005 PBB.
Curt
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ropefriend
Nov 2, 2004, 6:06 AM
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My money's on you Ike.
Hey I am an ex-retailer and used to help run an event with results similar to what happens in Phoenix area post-PBB. We would have a blast, party and have a good time, and sell stuff for pennies on the dollar right before the peak season. Fun, but dumb if you're trying to run a business.
You all have to make up your own mind if having specialty retail shops (bowlers call 'em pro shops) is meaningful or not. You will eventually be able to buy everything at walmart.com, so it's really not about the ease or price, but the vibe, as Ike alludes to. Who wants to spend their life surfing walmart.com and supporting mega corps, anyway? Every penny you've ever saved on gear could be lost under your ass in the form of a nice pair of designer shades, on any given day. I suggest you be part of YOUR community, and the local shop is part of that, right?
Ropefriend
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