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bill413
Nov 24, 2009, 11:57 PM
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moose_droppings wrote: When all of you are done over there, could you stop by and clean up my yard. Oh, and don't park in my driveway, that's just for friends.
Will there be a grab bag fee?
But, either way, I guess that even though I know it is a small gesture, in light of the massive destruction being perpetrated on our planet, it has value.
Is there parking within 3 miles of your yard? (Besides, of course, the driveway).
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brokesomeribs
Nov 25, 2009, 6:04 AM
Post #27 of 48
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moose_droppings wrote: When all of you are done over there, could you stop by and clean up my yard. Oh, and don't park in my driveway, that's just for friends.
Oh zing. I love it.
For what it's worth, tallgirl, I would happily show up in the shittiest weather conditions and do a full day of back-breaking trail work and clean up if it meant that the idea of public access to Skytop would be opened to discussion.
Note I didn't say "opened." Just "opened to discussion."
It's not clear to me if you were posting this as a PSA or as a pseudo-guerrilla marketing scheme for the MMH, but to be honest, you've created more questions than answers thus far.
A clarification would be appreciated by all parties.
Edit for clarity
(This post was edited by brokesomeribs on Nov 25, 2009, 6:07 AM)
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Adk
Nov 25, 2009, 3:08 PM
Post #28 of 48
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I'd love to come down just to get out of the area but I need more info. Ok, maybe an application at the MMH too....
Grab bag idea is cool. I'm good with that. If I come down I need a place to crash though.
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brokesomeribs
Nov 25, 2009, 3:18 PM
Post #29 of 48
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Adk wrote: Grab bag idea is cool. I'm good with that.
Just like I don't play the lottery or go down to Atlantic City, I'm not gonna drop $20 on a mystery grab bag courtesy of the MMH (unless someone confirms that it includes 1 free "day pass" haha).
Adk wrote: If I come down I need a place to crash though.
Camp Slime? DEC multi-use camping? Rock & Snow municipal lot?
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jakedatc
Nov 25, 2009, 3:32 PM
Post #30 of 48
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Adk wrote: I'd love to come down just to get out of the area but I need more info. Ok, maybe an application at the MMH too.... Grab bag idea is cool. I'm good with that. If I come down I need a place to crash though.
you guys are not reading that correctly. MMH isn't putting ANYTHING into this. YOU bring:
your own gloves
your own lunch
your own gifts under $20 to trade with each other
your own gullibility thinking this will do anything to open skytop
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Adk
Nov 25, 2009, 5:43 PM
Post #31 of 48
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I'm reading it correctly. I could care less if Skytop is ever opened to the public. Really.
As for the $20 grab bad gift. I bet Rock and Snow would like my 20 beans spent there. I'd rather spend it there than any cheap casino.
The milti-abuse area is out of luck this time of year for me. I sleep near a fireplace or furnace.
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happiegrrrl
Nov 25, 2009, 11:13 PM
Post #32 of 48
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Hiw many of you loudtypers has ever done any of the past Gunks Adopt-A-Crag events, I'm interested to know? I can't be at this one, as I will be in Jtree, but otherwise I would go.
Who in hell can blame the MMH for not throwing open their doors and putting down the welcome mat to what the Trapps on a weekend is? And anyone who thinks that would not be the case if climbing access was "open" at Skytop is delusional. I can just hear it: "ON BELAY! WHAT? DID YOU SAY SLACK? NO! I SAID ONNNN BEEEEE LAYYYYYY! WHHHHAAAATTTT????"
As for day passes, I have no idea if there is any schwag to be had at this year's event, but last year I won a family pass to the Mohonk Preserve at a cleanup event. And a pair of Evolv shoes. And a chalk bag.... Maybe if some a you'd shown up you could have gotten one of the gifts.... Instead, Teddy did!
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marc801
Nov 25, 2009, 11:30 PM
Post #33 of 48
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happiegrrrl wrote: Who in hell can blame the MMH for not throwing open their doors and putting down the welcome mat to what the Trapps on a weekend is? And anyone who thinks that would not be the case if climbing access was "open" at Skytop is delusional.
No, I don't think Skytop would be just like the Trapps on a weekend, simply because it never was and I suspect that would continue. Why? Climbers are inherently lazy and the commute to Skytop hasn't changed any. The Trapps are far more accessible and attract far more people.
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caughtinside
Nov 25, 2009, 11:49 PM
Post #34 of 48
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happiegrrrl wrote: Hiw many of you loudtypers has ever done any of the past Gunks Adopt-A-Crag events, I'm interested to know?
I've never done one at the Gunks, but I've worked at other ones. But I wouldn't waste my time cleaning up a crag I'm not allowed to climb at.
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jakedatc
Nov 25, 2009, 11:53 PM
Post #35 of 48
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happiegrrrl wrote: Hiw many of you loudtypers has ever done any of the past Gunks Adopt-A-Crag events, I'm interested to know? I can't be at this one, as I will be in Jtree, but otherwise I would go. Who in hell can blame the MMH for not throwing open their doors and putting down the welcome mat to what the Trapps on a weekend is? And anyone who thinks that would not be the case if climbing access was "open" at Skytop is delusional. I can just hear it: "ON BELAY! WHAT? DID YOU SAY SLACK? NO! I SAID ONNNN BEEEEE LAYYYYYY! WHHHHAAAATTTT????" As for day passes, I have no idea if there is any schwag to be had at this year's event, but last year I won a family pass to the Mohonk Preserve at a cleanup event. And a pair of Evolv shoes. And a chalk bag.... Maybe if some a you'd shown up you could have gotten one of the gifts.... Instead, Teddy did! [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/happiegrrrl/Teddy%20Pics/Teddys-Tagblotted.jpg[/IMG]
was that adopt a crag at Sky Top? i think everyone here would be totally down for an event at the Trapps, Nears, Peterskill etc.
why should we support a crag that we are not allowed to climb at without a huge expense?
Your mohonk preserve name tag is showing....
Again.. they have staff at their swanky hotel on the payroll to clean up THEIR area.
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happiegrrrl
Nov 26, 2009, 12:02 AM
Post #36 of 48
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The event I won all the crap was was on the Trapps, but it was not the traditional Adopt-a-Carg annual event.
GCC's Adopt-a-Crag's annual event has been at Peterskill for the last several years. This year the people who do all the efforts in the GCC had other stuff that precluded them from organizing the event. When it was noted that the event was missed, someone stepped up to the plate and began organizing this one.
Considering that PIPC has just published their Master Plan for Minnewaska and it pretty much guarantees that the only additional climbing they will offer is - possibly - Dickie Barr, despite the HUGE effort made by GCC on the part of climbers to expand access, I don't think it is such a shame that Peterskill wasn't again chosen.
But I think the reason MMH was chosen is more likely that it might have been an easier matter to organize the event in short notice.
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jakedatc
Nov 26, 2009, 12:07 AM
Post #37 of 48
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happiegrrrl wrote: The event I won all the crap was was on the Trapps, but it was not the traditional Adopt-a-Carg annual event. GCC's Adopt-a-Crag's annual event has been at Peterskill for the last several years. This year the people who do all the efforts in the GCC had other stuff that precluded them from organizing the event. When it was noted that the event was missed, someone stepped up to the plate and began organizing this one. Considering that PIPC has just published their Master Plan for Minnewaska and it pretty much guarantees that the only additional climbing they will offer is - possibly - Dickie Barr, despite the HUGE effort made by GCC on the part of climbers to expand access, I don't think it is such a shame that Peterskill wasn't again chosen. But I think the reason MMH was chosen is more likely that it might have been an easier matter to organize the event in short notice.
soooo... absolutely no motivation to do any clean up at Sky Top. Gotcha.
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happiegrrrl
Nov 26, 2009, 2:18 AM
Post #38 of 48
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I'm not sure what you are inferring there, but I guess I had better make it clear that anything I am writing is my opinion, and mine alone. And as has been clear all along - I am an opinionated person. But again, I speak for no one other than myself.
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carabiner96
Nov 26, 2009, 2:44 AM
Post #39 of 48
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jakedatc wrote: Adk wrote: I'd love to come down just to get out of the area but I need more info. Ok, maybe an application at the MMH too.... Grab bag idea is cool. I'm good with that. If I come down I need a place to crash though. you guys are not reading that correctly. MMH isn't putting ANYTHING into this. YOU bring: your own gloves your own lunch your own gifts under $20 to trade with each other your own gullibility thinking this will do anything to open skytop
When I did the adopt-a-crag in Vermont this fall, we got breakfast, lunch, a raffle where everyone got a prize (from packs to ropes) and a thank you bag that had over $80 worth of gear from metal waterbottles to socks to headlamps. All for 6 hours of trailbuilding.
Why? Because it was a COMMUNITY driven even on land that was open to the PUBLIC. Local shops and big brands took part.
Good luck getting that, it sounds.
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carabiner96
Nov 26, 2009, 2:48 AM
Post #40 of 48
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happiegrrrl wrote: But I think the reason MMH was chosen is more likely that it might have been an easier matter to organize the event in short notice.
I think the only one's who chose skytop was MMH themself.
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jakedatc
Nov 26, 2009, 3:12 AM
Post #41 of 48
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carabiner96 wrote: jakedatc wrote: Adk wrote: I'd love to come down just to get out of the area but I need more info. Ok, maybe an application at the MMH too.... Grab bag idea is cool. I'm good with that. If I come down I need a place to crash though. you guys are not reading that correctly. MMH isn't putting ANYTHING into this. YOU bring: your own gloves your own lunch your own gifts under $20 to trade with each other your own gullibility thinking this will do anything to open skytop When I did the adopt-a-crag in Vermont this fall, we got breakfast, lunch, a raffle where everyone got a prize (from packs to ropes) and a thank you bag that had over $80 worth of gear from metal waterbottles to socks to headlamps. All for 6 hours of trailbuilding. Why? Because it was a COMMUNITY driven even on land that was open to the PUBLIC. Local shops and big brands took part. Good luck getting that, it sounds.
exactly.. this one sounds poorly planned, poorly located, and an idiotic public relation point for MMH. Climbers already hate the situation with Skytop and you want to use them as free janitors now? eff that.
Happi i don't quite understand your opinion. Is it that folks should go just because it's something to do? There are far better clean up efforts around that will further open or improve access in that area. I know you do a ton of the trail days and stuff at the Trapps.. that is awesome, it makes getting up to the climbs much safer and better. Nothing done at skytop will improve anything for 99.9% of us and sets a bad precedent that climbers will do work for nothing.
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happiegrrrl
Nov 26, 2009, 3:48 AM
Post #42 of 48
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I think that an adopt-a-crag event was planned, and if someone want to participate in the event they should go. If they don't, then they shouldn't go.
I myself don't see a need to pick apart the thing.
But Ive been to enough Gunks area clean-ups to know that there are MORE people bitching about this than I have seen at any of the clean ups in the area. I don't think I've seen more than 20 people total who have ever volunteered a day at Gunks clean up events in the few years I have been climbing(since 2004).
So - I really don't put much value on words written by people who never show up in the first place. It's like that children's story about the hen and the bread "Who will help me sow the seeds, reap the wheat, kneed the bread?" Nobody helps. But when it cones to "Who will help me EAT the bread?" all the animals are happy to help in THAT aspect!
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carabiner96
Nov 26, 2009, 3:56 AM
Post #43 of 48
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happiegrrrl wrote: So - I really don't put much value on words written by people who never show up in the first place. It's like that children's story about the hen and the bread "Who will help me sow the seeds, reap the wheat, kneed the bread?" Nobody helps. But when it cones to "Who will help me EAT the bread?" all the animals are happy to help in THAT aspect!
But, this scenario is "Who will help me sow the seeds, reap the wheat, kneed the bread, then get off of my property while I eat the bread with people who will buy a slice?"
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jakedatc
Nov 26, 2009, 4:01 AM
Post #44 of 48
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happiegrrrl wrote: I think that an adopt-a-crag event was planned, and if someone want to participate in the event they should go. If they don't, then they shouldn't go. I myself don't see a need to pick apart the thing. But Ive been to enough Gunks area clean-ups to know that there are MORE people bitching about this than I have seen at any of the clean ups in the area. I don't think I've seen more than 20 people total who have ever volunteered a day at Gunks clean up events in the few years I have been climbing(since 2004). So - I really don't put much value on words written by people who never show up in the first place. It's like that children's story about the hen and the bread "Who will help me sow the seeds, reap the wheat, kneed the bread?" Nobody helps. B ut when it cones to "Who will help me EAT the bread?" all the animals are happy to help in THAT aspect!
there is NO bread to EAT! it's SKY TOP it's CLOSED to 99.99% of us
I have done the access fund clean up day at my local area for the last like 6 years. If if lived closer to the gunks i would have done those access fund things also but i don't, i think you can agree that a 4 hour drive is too far for a few hours of clean up.
more people are bitching because it's' at SKYTOP if you don't get why people are pissed off about that then your head is so buried in the sand that it's not worth trying to explain it to you. SKY TOP = about $600 a DAY to climb there PER PERSON between required GUIDE and HOTEL ROOM. This is not a public area, it is a private area run by people charging a fuck ton of money to climb there.
$15 trapps, nears, millbrook.. vs $600+ Sky top..
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curt
Nov 26, 2009, 4:45 AM
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jakedatc wrote: happiegrrrl wrote: I think that an adopt-a-crag event was planned, and if someone want to participate in the event they should go. If they don't, then they shouldn't go. I myself don't see a need to pick apart the thing. But Ive been to enough Gunks area clean-ups to know that there are MORE people bitching about this than I have seen at any of the clean ups in the area. I don't think I've seen more than 20 people total who have ever volunteered a day at Gunks clean up events in the few years I have been climbing(since 2004). So - I really don't put much value on words written by people who never show up in the first place. It's like that children's story about the hen and the bread "Who will help me sow the seeds, reap the wheat, kneed the bread?" Nobody helps. B ut when it cones to "Who will help me EAT the bread?" all the animals are happy to help in THAT aspect! there is NO bread to EAT! it's SKY TOP it's CLOSED to 99.99% of us I have done the access fund clean up day at my local area for the last like 6 years. If if lived closer to the gunks i would have done those access fund things also but i don't, i think you can agree that a 4 hour drive is too far for a few hours of clean up. more people are bitching because it's' at SKYTOP if you don't get why people are pissed off about that then your head is so buried in the sand that it's not worth trying to explain it to you. SKY TOP = about $600 a DAY to climb there PER PERSON between required GUIDE and HOTEL ROOM. This is not a public area, it is a private area run by people charging a fuck ton of money to climb there. $15 trapps, nears, millbrook.. vs $600+ Sky top..
rgold's and other's comments notwithstanding, there might be no climbing whatsoever in the Gunks today if not for the vision of the Smiley family and the Mohonk Mountain House. I can't claim that I see a clear path from this "Adopt a Crag" event at Skytop to the area being reopened to climbing, but I certainly don't see how it could hurt.
Curt
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carabiner96
Nov 26, 2009, 4:56 AM
Post #46 of 48
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curt wrote: jakedatc wrote: happiegrrrl wrote: I think that an adopt-a-crag event was planned, and if someone want to participate in the event they should go. If they don't, then they shouldn't go. I myself don't see a need to pick apart the thing. But Ive been to enough Gunks area clean-ups to know that there are MORE people bitching about this than I have seen at any of the clean ups in the area. I don't think I've seen more than 20 people total who have ever volunteered a day at Gunks clean up events in the few years I have been climbing(since 2004). So - I really don't put much value on words written by people who never show up in the first place. It's like that children's story about the hen and the bread "Who will help me sow the seeds, reap the wheat, kneed the bread?" Nobody helps. B ut when it cones to "Who will help me EAT the bread?" all the animals are happy to help in THAT aspect! there is NO bread to EAT! it's SKY TOP it's CLOSED to 99.99% of us I have done the access fund clean up day at my local area for the last like 6 years. If if lived closer to the gunks i would have done those access fund things also but i don't, i think you can agree that a 4 hour drive is too far for a few hours of clean up. more people are bitching because it's' at SKYTOP if you don't get why people are pissed off about that then your head is so buried in the sand that it's not worth trying to explain it to you. SKY TOP = about $600 a DAY to climb there PER PERSON between required GUIDE and HOTEL ROOM. This is not a public area, it is a private area run by people charging a fuck ton of money to climb there. $15 trapps, nears, millbrook.. vs $600+ Sky top.. rgold's and other's comments notwithstanding, there might be no climbing whatsoever in the Gunks today if not for the vision of the Smiley family and the Mohonk Mountain House. I can't claim that I see a clear path from this "Adopt a Crag" event at Skytop to the area being reopened to climbing, but I certainly don't see how it could hurt. Curt
I think if TallGirl could have said "this event will promote a mutually beneficial relationship between climbers and MMH that will lead to a discussion of SkyTop's role in the public scene" or some other warm and fuzzy BS like that, it would have made all of the difference.
Now, I don't know too much about the Gunks other than it's like a high school drama team down there, but this situation seems pretty straight forward...only at the Gunks.
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cracklover
Nov 26, 2009, 5:51 PM
Post #47 of 48
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Hey Curt! Nice to see you the other day!
curt wrote: rgold's and other's comments notwithstanding, there might be no climbing whatsoever in the Gunks today if not for the vision of the Smiley family and the Mohonk Mountain House. I can't claim that I see a clear path from this "Adopt a Crag" event at Skytop to the area being reopened to climbing, but I certainly don't see how it could hurt. Curt
just to be clear - I was not meaning to complain or criticise the cleanup, or tallgirl's work in putting it together. Rather, I was surprised, and looking for some clarification.
I have to say - while I'm still puzzled by the choice of location, and what the mountain house thinks, it's disappointing to see so much vehemence against the resort and tallgirl.
GO
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rgold
Nov 27, 2009, 3:44 PM
Post #48 of 48
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Curt is right about the Smiley's for sure, and it is certainly true that the event in question can't hurt climber's interests, which are nearly as hurt as they can possibly be anyway. I don't think I attacked TG, but I stand by my comment that a cleanup of hotel grounds is peculiar.
My personal view is that climbers were their own worst enemy in the past and that their behavior (or the behavior of an unfortunately visible minority), if it did not actually bring about the ban, certainly eliminated any hesitation their might have been about instituting a moratorium.
So, if the provision of free janitorial services to the hotel contributes in any way to reversing the perception that there is no benefit and significant drawbacks to allowing climbers back on hotel grounds, then it will be a good thing for us all.
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