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moof
Jul 4, 2010, 4:51 AM
Post #26 of 51
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Indeed, the issues that are reported to happen:
1. Heavy loads with inadequate freedom of movement can allow the rope to jump off the pulley and wedge between the front plate and the sheeve.
2. Beater traxions get sloppy allowing the front plate to close without actually meshing with the sheeve. So unless you pay attention you can close the unit, have the button in place, and then get an ugly surprise once the bags are cut loose.
I've used mine several times and have had no problems, however I agree with the critics that the engineering is sketchy. In my opinion with proper care, and modest loads it is fine. It is far better than the old wall hauler, which really had shitty safety margins (and yes, plenty of folks did walls with those without incurring death, they are still shit).
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majid_sabet
Jul 4, 2010, 5:22 AM
Post #27 of 51
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csproul wrote: According to reports on Supertopo, there have indeed been some problems with the protraxion. Mostly these problems have occurred when the device was used without adequate rotational freedom, and/or with an asymmetrical carabiner. These have caused the plates to torque apart. Devices have broken, and skinny haul lines have jumped off the pulley and become wedged between the pulley and the plate. I think that using this device with really big loads may be questionable, and for sure it seems important to use symmetrical carabiners, and allow it to rotate freely by placing it on a sling. I have just started using mine and have yet to haul a heavy load, but I am certainly going to take these warnings to heart. Majid is not the first person I have heard warn about the protraxion, and in fact I have heard some pretty experienced (more than one wall) aid climbers express reservations about using it.
most experienced climbers who have protrax went back to old wallhauler cause they could trust the protrax.
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USnavy
Jul 4, 2010, 9:10 AM
Post #28 of 51
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majid_sabet wrote: USnavy wrote: majid_sabet wrote: euroford wrote: i find the protraxion to be totally adequate. i'm sure there are better things out there, but not so much that i'm going to make it a priority. hauling sucks, its allot of work, there isn't really any way around that. even if you have the best possible equipment and technique. but its totally doable and if you suck it up its over before you know it. having a couple of small pulleys available is a good idea. that way if you get in trouble, you can easily convert to 3:1. the one time i had to use a 3:1 was a low-angled blocky kind of situation where the bags were draggin. it SUCKED. the 3:1 works, but it drags our the pain 3x longer. avoid if at all possible. that piece of sh*t protrax is one most dangerous gear any climber could have on his or her position.two near miss call on El cap in 2008-2009 and climber died on Zion because of that fuc*ing thing. read accident report and keep yourself up to date . You have no idea what your talking about. Dont act like you have actually used one on a wall, you probably haven't even used one on the ground. My partner and I used a Pro Traxion on every pitch of The Nose with about a 120 lbs. bag. Guess what, it worked out fine. We had as much as 450 lbs. on it between the two of us and the bags and it held up. The damn thing is not made out of plastic, its rated to 5,000 lbs. If you lock the Pro Traxion and put a biner through the bottom hole, you wouldn't be able to break it if you tried. None of this even matters anyway as you should never configure your haul in a manner that puts the Pro Traxion as the only thing between you and the ground. You should be tied into the belay station on a tether and you should back up the pulley system so even if the Pro Traxion fails, your still on belay. why do not you just shut up man and do not make up stories 450 lbs of haul bag doing nose whatever
I will shut up when you stop talking out of your ass. Since you are a little rusty on elementary arithmetic allow me to help you out:
120 lbs. pig + 165 lbs partner on the other side of the rope + me on the other side of the rope below him (155 lbs.) = 440 lbs. And yes I am being conservative with those figures.
You think I am lieing about doing The Nose? Well I am on the El Cap report from two weeks ago, look me up I am in a green windbreaker, we have a yellow lead line and a grey haul line. We did it in 2.5 days with lines fixed to Stickle.
The Pro Traxion has its design flaws but using one is not the guaranteed death sentence you are implying.
(This post was edited by USnavy on Jul 4, 2010, 9:17 AM)
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majid_sabet
Jul 4, 2010, 3:38 PM
Post #29 of 51
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USnavy wrote: majid_sabet wrote: USnavy wrote: majid_sabet wrote: euroford wrote: i find the protraxion to be totally adequate. i'm sure there are better things out there, but not so much that i'm going to make it a priority. hauling sucks, its allot of work, there isn't really any way around that. even if you have the best possible equipment and technique. but its totally doable and if you suck it up its over before you know it. having a couple of small pulleys available is a good idea. that way if you get in trouble, you can easily convert to 3:1. the one time i had to use a 3:1 was a low-angled blocky kind of situation where the bags were draggin. it SUCKED. the 3:1 works, but it drags our the pain 3x longer. avoid if at all possible. that piece of sh*t protrax is one most dangerous gear any climber could have on his or her position.two near miss call on El cap in 2008-2009 and climber died on Zion because of that fuc*ing thing. read accident report and keep yourself up to date . You have no idea what your talking about. Dont act like you have actually used one on a wall, you probably haven't even used one on the ground. My partner and I used a Pro Traxion on every pitch of The Nose with about a 120 lbs. bag. Guess what, it worked out fine. We had as much as 450 lbs. on it between the two of us and the bags and it held up. The damn thing is not made out of plastic, its rated to 5,000 lbs. If you lock the Pro Traxion and put a biner through the bottom hole, you wouldn't be able to break it if you tried. None of this even matters anyway as you should never configure your haul in a manner that puts the Pro Traxion as the only thing between you and the ground. You should be tied into the belay station on a tether and you should back up the pulley system so even if the Pro Traxion fails, your still on belay. why do not you just shut up man and do not make up stories 450 lbs of haul bag doing nose whatever I will shut up when you stop talking out of your ass. Since you are a little rusty on elementary arithmetic allow me to help you out: 120 lbs. pig + 165 lbs partner on the other side of the rope + me on the other side of the rope below him (155 lbs.) = 440 lbs. And yes I am being conservative with those figures. You think I am lieing about doing The Nose? Well I am on the El Cap report from two weeks ago, look me up I am in a green windbreaker, we have a yellow lead line and a grey haul line. We did it in 2.5 days with lines fixed to Stickle. The Pro Traxion has its design flaws but using one is not the guaranteed death sentence you are implying.
in 8 years of me been a RC member, I have driven too many climbers out of this site and have send many of them in to suicide climbing mission but I have to admit that you are the only one driving me crazy.
Your IQ beyond typing
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USnavy
Jul 4, 2010, 4:55 PM
Post #30 of 51
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majid_sabet wrote: USnavy wrote: majid_sabet wrote: USnavy wrote: majid_sabet wrote: euroford wrote: i find the protraxion to be totally adequate. i'm sure there are better things out there, but not so much that i'm going to make it a priority. hauling sucks, its allot of work, there isn't really any way around that. even if you have the best possible equipment and technique. but its totally doable and if you suck it up its over before you know it. having a couple of small pulleys available is a good idea. that way if you get in trouble, you can easily convert to 3:1. the one time i had to use a 3:1 was a low-angled blocky kind of situation where the bags were draggin. it SUCKED. the 3:1 works, but it drags our the pain 3x longer. avoid if at all possible. that piece of sh*t protrax is one most dangerous gear any climber could have on his or her position.two near miss call on El cap in 2008-2009 and climber died on Zion because of that fuc*ing thing. read accident report and keep yourself up to date . You have no idea what your talking about. Dont act like you have actually used one on a wall, you probably haven't even used one on the ground. My partner and I used a Pro Traxion on every pitch of The Nose with about a 120 lbs. bag. Guess what, it worked out fine. We had as much as 450 lbs. on it between the two of us and the bags and it held up. The damn thing is not made out of plastic, its rated to 5,000 lbs. If you lock the Pro Traxion and put a biner through the bottom hole, you wouldn't be able to break it if you tried. None of this even matters anyway as you should never configure your haul in a manner that puts the Pro Traxion as the only thing between you and the ground. You should be tied into the belay station on a tether and you should back up the pulley system so even if the Pro Traxion fails, your still on belay. why do not you just shut up man and do not make up stories 450 lbs of haul bag doing nose whatever I will shut up when you stop talking out of your ass. Since you are a little rusty on elementary arithmetic allow me to help you out: 120 lbs. pig + 165 lbs partner on the other side of the rope + me on the other side of the rope below him (155 lbs.) = 440 lbs. And yes I am being conservative with those figures. You think I am lieing about doing The Nose? Well I am on the El Cap report from two weeks ago, look me up I am in a green windbreaker, we have a yellow lead line and a grey haul line. We did it in 2.5 days with lines fixed to Stickle. The Pro Traxion has its design flaws but using one is not the guaranteed death sentence you are implying. Your IQ beyond typing
(This post was edited by USnavy on Jul 4, 2010, 4:57 PM)
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bill413
Jul 4, 2010, 6:54 PM
Post #31 of 51
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USnavy wrote: majid_sabet wrote: USnavy wrote: majid_sabet wrote: USnavy wrote: You have no idea what your talking about. Dont act like you have actually used one on a wall, you probably haven't even used one on the ground. My partner and I used a Pro Traxion on every pitch of The Nose with about a 120 lbs. bag. Guess what, it worked out fine. We had as much as 450 lbs. on it between the two of us and the bags and it held up. The damn thing is not made out of plastic, its rated to 5,000 lbs. If you lock the Pro Traxion and put a biner through the bottom hole, you wouldn't be able to break it if you tried. None of this even matters anyway as you should never configure your haul in a manner that puts the Pro Traxion as the only thing between you and the ground. You should be tied into the belay station on a tether and you should back up the pulley system so even if the Pro Traxion fails, your still on belay. why do not you just shut up man and do not make up stories 450 lbs of haul bag doing nose whatever I will shut up when you stop talking out of your ass. Since you are a little rusty on elementary arithmetic allow me to help you out: 120 lbs. pig + 165 lbs partner on the other side of the rope + me on the other side of the rope below him (155 lbs.) = 440 lbs. And yes I am being conservative with those figures. You think I am lieing about doing The Nose? Well I am on the El Cap report from two weeks ago, look me up I am in a green windbreaker, we have a yellow lead line and a grey haul line. We did it in 2.5 days with lines fixed to Stickle. The Pro Traxion has its design flaws but using one is not the guaranteed death sentence you are implying. Your IQ beyond typing Maybe so but its obviously higher then yours as I can write complete sentences. Maybe its not me driving you crazy, its the fact that I brought you to realize you don't have any actual climbing experience? Anyway if you get pissed at someone on a forum your just plain soft, the Internet means nothing, it is nothing. If your getting pissed on someone on the net it means you are spending way too much time inside and not nearly enough time on the sharp end.
Sounds like you're the one getting pissed. Pretty angry answer, and stalking him in other threads now. So, maybe you should try climbing?
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USnavy
Jul 5, 2010, 6:27 AM
Post #32 of 51
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bill413 wrote: USnavy wrote: majid_sabet wrote: USnavy wrote: majid_sabet wrote: USnavy wrote: You have no idea what your talking about. Dont act like you have actually used one on a wall, you probably haven't even used one on the ground. My partner and I used a Pro Traxion on every pitch of The Nose with about a 120 lbs. bag. Guess what, it worked out fine. We had as much as 450 lbs. on it between the two of us and the bags and it held up. The damn thing is not made out of plastic, its rated to 5,000 lbs. If you lock the Pro Traxion and put a biner through the bottom hole, you wouldn't be able to break it if you tried. None of this even matters anyway as you should never configure your haul in a manner that puts the Pro Traxion as the only thing between you and the ground. You should be tied into the belay station on a tether and you should back up the pulley system so even if the Pro Traxion fails, your still on belay. why do not you just shut up man and do not make up stories 450 lbs of haul bag doing nose whatever I will shut up when you stop talking out of your ass. Since you are a little rusty on elementary arithmetic allow me to help you out: 120 lbs. pig + 165 lbs partner on the other side of the rope + me on the other side of the rope below him (155 lbs.) = 440 lbs. And yes I am being conservative with those figures. You think I am lieing about doing The Nose? Well I am on the El Cap report from two weeks ago, look me up I am in a green windbreaker, we have a yellow lead line and a grey haul line. We did it in 2.5 days with lines fixed to Stickle. The Pro Traxion has its design flaws but using one is not the guaranteed death sentence you are implying. Your IQ beyond typing Maybe so but its obviously higher then yours as I can write complete sentences. Maybe its not me driving you crazy, its the fact that I brought you to realize you don't have any actual climbing experience? Anyway if you get pissed at someone on a forum your just plain soft, the Internet means nothing, it is nothing. If your getting pissed on someone on the net it means you are spending way too much time inside and not nearly enough time on the sharp end. Sounds like you're the one getting pissed. Pretty angry answer, and stalking him in other threads now. So, maybe you should try climbing?
How is that an angry answer? It’s not even remotely angry. I do try climbing, four times a week outside plus a few more in the gym. I am not stocking him, he posts shit in virtually every topic, it’s hard to avoid running into him.
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csproul
Jul 5, 2010, 5:06 PM
Post #33 of 51
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stalking...stocking...I'm not sure what it is you think you are not doing to MS.
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xtrmecat
Jul 6, 2010, 3:49 PM
Post #35 of 51
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Perhaps a slip, perhaps a hint?
The Trax has issues, it is widely documented, and known. Easily researched also. I still allowed myself to be talked into using one on my winter wall this year, and we discussed the issues.
I was very nervous about using the thing, it was a mini, and we tethered it longer to avoid the issues. No problems encountered. Would I purchase one? Not on your life. It still is a piece with potentially deadly problems. We were only hauling two days payload too. I had my device along, but the partner insisted on his device.
I cannot understand why anyone who knows there are potential issues with something would continue to talk it up as OK to use, or worse yet buy it for their own use. Just seems like a case of denial and the infamous" It won't happen to me" syndrome.
Petzyl makes some good stuff, the trax isn't good stuff though. I am sure they cannot pull it from the market without some suspicion of defect being put on the device by all the legal folks, so it remains. Just my opinion, but stupid is as stupid does.
Oh and USnerdy, Majid doesn't have shit for grasp on the English language, or even close to a coherent vocabulary, no secret here. I wonder about your ability to survive, not so much on rock, that I know the resulting probabilities there, but rather your problem solving skills and being able to stay alive on the planets surface with all the potential life theatening scenarios. HMMMMMMM.
Bob
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majid_sabet
Jul 6, 2010, 5:49 PM
Post #36 of 51
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USnavy wrote: bill413 wrote: USnavy wrote: majid_sabet wrote: USnavy wrote: majid_sabet wrote: USnavy wrote: You have no idea what your talking about. Dont act like you have actually used one on a wall, you probably haven't even used one on the ground. My partner and I used a Pro Traxion on every pitch of The Nose with about a 120 lbs. bag. Guess what, it worked out fine. We had as much as 450 lbs. on it between the two of us and the bags and it held up. The damn thing is not made out of plastic, its rated to 5,000 lbs. If you lock the Pro Traxion and put a biner through the bottom hole, you wouldn't be able to break it if you tried. None of this even matters anyway as you should never configure your haul in a manner that puts the Pro Traxion as the only thing between you and the ground. You should be tied into the belay station on a tether and you should back up the pulley system so even if the Pro Traxion fails, your still on belay. why do not you just shut up man and do not make up stories 450 lbs of haul bag doing nose whatever I will shut up when you stop talking out of your ass. Since you are a little rusty on elementary arithmetic allow me to help you out: 120 lbs. pig + 165 lbs partner on the other side of the rope + me on the other side of the rope below him (155 lbs.) = 440 lbs. And yes I am being conservative with those figures. You think I am lieing about doing The Nose? Well I am on the El Cap report from two weeks ago, look me up I am in a green windbreaker, we have a yellow lead line and a grey haul line. We did it in 2.5 days with lines fixed to Stickle. The Pro Traxion has its design flaws but using one is not the guaranteed death sentence you are implying. Your IQ beyond typing Maybe so but its obviously higher then yours as I can write complete sentences. Maybe its not me driving you crazy, its the fact that I brought you to realize you don't have any actual climbing experience? Anyway if you get pissed at someone on a forum your just plain soft, the Internet means nothing, it is nothing. If your getting pissed on someone on the net it means you are spending way too much time inside and not nearly enough time on the sharp end. Sounds like you're the one getting pissed. Pretty angry answer, and stalking him in other threads now. So, maybe you should try climbing? How is that an angry answer? It’s not even remotely angry. I do try climbing, four times a week outside plus a few more in the gym. I am not stocking him, he posts shit in virtually every topic, it’s hard to avoid running into him.
The device has the blood of one climber on itself and few others escape death. petzl does make great climbing devices but not all are perfect. this one aint one of them. you have never seen a dead climber. you have never seen how they look after a 300 meter fall where bones are crushed in to their bodies from every corner.
get that in your head
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USnavy
Jul 7, 2010, 9:47 AM
Post #37 of 51
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majid_sabet wrote: USnavy wrote: bill413 wrote: USnavy wrote: majid_sabet wrote: USnavy wrote: majid_sabet wrote: USnavy wrote: You have no idea what your talking about. Dont act like you have actually used one on a wall, you probably haven't even used one on the ground. My partner and I used a Pro Traxion on every pitch of The Nose with about a 120 lbs. bag. Guess what, it worked out fine. We had as much as 450 lbs. on it between the two of us and the bags and it held up. The damn thing is not made out of plastic, its rated to 5,000 lbs. If you lock the Pro Traxion and put a biner through the bottom hole, you wouldn't be able to break it if you tried. None of this even matters anyway as you should never configure your haul in a manner that puts the Pro Traxion as the only thing between you and the ground. You should be tied into the belay station on a tether and you should back up the pulley system so even if the Pro Traxion fails, your still on belay. why do not you just shut up man and do not make up stories 450 lbs of haul bag doing nose whatever I will shut up when you stop talking out of your ass. Since you are a little rusty on elementary arithmetic allow me to help you out: 120 lbs. pig + 165 lbs partner on the other side of the rope + me on the other side of the rope below him (155 lbs.) = 440 lbs. And yes I am being conservative with those figures. You think I am lieing about doing The Nose? Well I am on the El Cap report from two weeks ago, look me up I am in a green windbreaker, we have a yellow lead line and a grey haul line. We did it in 2.5 days with lines fixed to Stickle. The Pro Traxion has its design flaws but using one is not the guaranteed death sentence you are implying. Your IQ beyond typing Maybe so but its obviously higher then yours as I can write complete sentences. Maybe its not me driving you crazy, its the fact that I brought you to realize you don't have any actual climbing experience? Anyway if you get pissed at someone on a forum your just plain soft, the Internet means nothing, it is nothing. If your getting pissed on someone on the net it means you are spending way too much time inside and not nearly enough time on the sharp end. Sounds like you're the one getting pissed. Pretty angry answer, and stalking him in other threads now. So, maybe you should try climbing? How is that an angry answer? It’s not even remotely angry. I do try climbing, four times a week outside plus a few more in the gym. I am not stocking him, he posts shit in virtually every topic, it’s hard to avoid running into him. The device has the blood of one climber on itself and few others escape death. petzl does make great climbing devices but not all are perfect. this one aint one of them. you have never seen a dead climber. you have never seen how they look after a 300 meter fall where bones are crushed in to their bodies from every corner. get that in your head
Get this in your head.
You NEVER trust a single pulley to hold the weight of you, your partner, and all your shit. You NEVER haul without being tethered to the belay station with your lead rope. This shit is common knowledge, its taught in every big wall tactics book in print. You should configure your haul in a manner that even if your Pro Traxion detonated like a bar of Semtex, you and your partner will live to tell about it. But I already said all this earlier...
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tripperjm
Jul 7, 2010, 7:12 PM
Post #38 of 51
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USnavy wrote: majid_sabet wrote: USnavy wrote: bill413 wrote: USnavy wrote: majid_sabet wrote: USnavy wrote: majid_sabet wrote: USnavy wrote: You have no idea what your talking about. Dont act like you have actually used one on a wall, you probably haven't even used one on the ground. My partner and I used a Pro Traxion on every pitch of The Nose with about a 120 lbs. bag. Guess what, it worked out fine. We had as much as 450 lbs. on it between the two of us and the bags and it held up. The damn thing is not made out of plastic, its rated to 5,000 lbs. If you lock the Pro Traxion and put a biner through the bottom hole, you wouldn't be able to break it if you tried. None of this even matters anyway as you should never configure your haul in a manner that puts the Pro Traxion as the only thing between you and the ground. You should be tied into the belay station on a tether and you should back up the pulley system so even if the Pro Traxion fails, your still on belay. why do not you just shut up man and do not make up stories 450 lbs of haul bag doing nose whatever I will shut up when you stop talking out of your ass. Since you are a little rusty on elementary arithmetic allow me to help you out: 120 lbs. pig + 165 lbs partner on the other side of the rope + me on the other side of the rope below him (155 lbs.) = 440 lbs. And yes I am being conservative with those figures. You think I am lieing about doing The Nose? Well I am on the El Cap report from two weeks ago, look me up I am in a green windbreaker, we have a yellow lead line and a grey haul line. We did it in 2.5 days with lines fixed to Stickle. The Pro Traxion has its design flaws but using one is not the guaranteed death sentence you are implying. Your IQ beyond typing Maybe so but its obviously higher then yours as I can write complete sentences. Maybe its not me driving you crazy, its the fact that I brought you to realize you don't have any actual climbing experience? Anyway if you get pissed at someone on a forum your just plain soft, the Internet means nothing, it is nothing. If your getting pissed on someone on the net it means you are spending way too much time inside and not nearly enough time on the sharp end. Sounds like you're the one getting pissed. Pretty angry answer, and stalking him in other threads now. So, maybe you should try climbing? How is that an angry answer? It’s not even remotely angry. I do try climbing, four times a week outside plus a few more in the gym. I am not stocking him, he posts shit in virtually every topic, it’s hard to avoid running into him. The device has the blood of one climber on itself and few others escape death. petzl does make great climbing devices but not all are perfect. this one aint one of them. you have never seen a dead climber. you have never seen how they look after a 300 meter fall where bones are crushed in to their bodies from every corner. get that in your head Get this in your head. You NEVER trust a single pulley to hold the weight of you, your partner, and all your shit. You NEVER haul without being tethered to the belay station with your lead rope. This shit is common knowledge, its taught in every big wall tactics book in print. You should configure your haul in a manner that even if your Pro Traxion detonated like a bar of Semtex, you and your partner will live to tell about it. But I already said all this earlier...
Ok, I think I finaly got it in my head. If I am stranded on an island and my only escape is to climb out with either of you knuckleheads... I'm going to go down on the beach and wait for death cuz it's got to be a lot less painful than listening to you two.
I am a little unclear about a few things though. Could you tell me again, about that 70' fall you caught a few weeks ago? How many days it took you to do the Nose on El Captian and was that a green windbreaker and yellow rope? and of course... How many routes, that were harder than 11d did you send, on that one day last week? And was that a 12c and a 12d or was it a 12d and a 12c? The pic you posted made it look like a 5.9 and I just wasn't sure.... I didn't get compleately soaked last time you sprayed me down and I still need to wash my crotch, so if you could help a guy out. Thanks.
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skiclimb
Jul 8, 2010, 5:52 AM
Post #39 of 51
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USnavy wrote: majid_sabet wrote: USnavy wrote: bill413 wrote: USnavy wrote: majid_sabet wrote: USnavy wrote: majid_sabet wrote: USnavy wrote: You have no idea what your talking about. Dont act like you have actually used one on a wall, you probably haven't even used one on the ground. My partner and I used a Pro Traxion on every pitch of The Nose with about a 120 lbs. bag. Guess what, it worked out fine. We had as much as 450 lbs. on it between the two of us and the bags and it held up. The damn thing is not made out of plastic, its rated to 5,000 lbs. If you lock the Pro Traxion and put a biner through the bottom hole, you wouldn't be able to break it if you tried. None of this even matters anyway as you should never configure your haul in a manner that puts the Pro Traxion as the only thing between you and the ground. You should be tied into the belay station on a tether and you should back up the pulley system so even if the Pro Traxion fails, your still on belay. why do not you just shut up man and do not make up stories 450 lbs of haul bag doing nose whatever I will shut up when you stop talking out of your ass. Since you are a little rusty on elementary arithmetic allow me to help you out: 120 lbs. pig + 165 lbs partner on the other side of the rope + me on the other side of the rope below him (155 lbs.) = 440 lbs. And yes I am being conservative with those figures. You think I am lieing about doing The Nose? Well I am on the El Cap report from two weeks ago, look me up I am in a green windbreaker, we have a yellow lead line and a grey haul line. We did it in 2.5 days with lines fixed to Stickle. The Pro Traxion has its design flaws but using one is not the guaranteed death sentence you are implying. Your IQ beyond typing Maybe so but its obviously higher then yours as I can write complete sentences. Maybe its not me driving you crazy, its the fact that I brought you to realize you don't have any actual climbing experience? Anyway if you get pissed at someone on a forum your just plain soft, the Internet means nothing, it is nothing. If your getting pissed on someone on the net it means you are spending way too much time inside and not nearly enough time on the sharp end. Sounds like you're the one getting pissed. Pretty angry answer, and stalking him in other threads now. So, maybe you should try climbing? How is that an angry answer? It’s not even remotely angry. I do try climbing, four times a week outside plus a few more in the gym. I am not stocking him, he posts shit in virtually every topic, it’s hard to avoid running into him. The device has the blood of one climber on itself and few others escape death. petzl does make great climbing devices but not all are perfect. this one aint one of them. you have never seen a dead climber. you have never seen how they look after a 300 meter fall where bones are crushed in to their bodies from every corner. get that in your head Get this in your head. You NEVER trust a single pulley to hold the weight of you, your partner, and all your shit. You NEVER haul without being tethered to the belay station with your lead rope. This shit is common knowledge, its taught in every big wall tactics book in print. You should configure your haul in a manner that even if your Pro Traxion detonated like a bar of Semtex, you and your partner will live to tell about it. But I already said all this earlier...
Beautifully said..
still i prefer an ole big CMI pully with a petzl ascender 0on same biner as the block ...more efficient and safer
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russwalling
Jul 12, 2010, 5:07 AM
Post #40 of 51
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In reply to: You NEVER haul without being tethered to the belay station with your lead rope.
Bzzzzzt.... wrongo. How about tethered with the remainder of the haul line since you are out of rope on the lead line after tying up the anchor? If you want to haul in 40ft drops or more you are going to have to lose that lead line is the only way to stay alive idea.
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skiclimb
Jul 12, 2010, 7:36 AM
Post #41 of 51
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russwalling wrote: In reply to: You NEVER haul without being tethered to the belay station with your lead rope. Bzzzzzt.... wrongo. How about tethered with the remainder of the haul line since you are out of rope on the lead line after tying up the anchor? If you want to haul in 40ft drops or more you are going to have to lose that lead line is the only way to stay alive idea.
so honestly here.. how many of us have hauled while attached by ascenders ONLY to the hauline?
raises hand
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moof
Jul 12, 2010, 11:27 PM
Post #42 of 51
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skiclimb wrote: russwalling wrote: In reply to: You NEVER haul without being tethered to the belay station with your lead rope. Bzzzzzt.... wrongo. How about tethered with the remainder of the haul line since you are out of rope on the lead line after tying up the anchor? If you want to haul in 40ft drops or more you are going to have to lose that lead line is the only way to stay alive idea. so honestly here.. how many of us have hauled while attached by ascenders ONLY to the hauline? raises hand
No hand raised here, and I do believe I would be compelled to dope slap any partner I caught doing so.
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xtrmecat
Jul 14, 2010, 4:47 PM
Post #43 of 51
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moof wrote: skiclimb wrote: russwalling wrote: In reply to: You NEVER haul without being tethered to the belay station with your lead rope. Bzzzzzt.... wrongo. How about tethered with the remainder of the haul line since you are out of rope on the lead line after tying up the anchor? If you want to haul in 40ft drops or more you are going to have to lose that lead line is the only way to stay alive idea. so honestly here.. how many of us have hauled while attached by ascenders ONLY to the hauline? raises hand No hand raised here, and I do believe I would be compelled to dope slap any partner I caught doing so.
I'll second this one for sure. How did this get this bad, I was only gone for a few days? I stay tethered to the anchor somehow, in every situation,always.
Bob
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cush
Jul 26, 2010, 1:55 AM
Post #44 of 51
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this whole thread is just one big, gigantic
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amyas
Jul 26, 2010, 3:43 AM
Post #45 of 51
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ok ok ive never done big walls either, but i so badly want to make stuff up like everyone else. message me and ill make a thread just for the ridiculous claims of myself and others.
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siccajames
Jul 26, 2010, 4:14 AM
Post #46 of 51
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Ok, so after i invented mountains, i was like, oh man how do i get all my stuff up here now? So i invented the protrax. So i think i'm the real authority here. Back it up fellas. Any one thing, protrax or no, should be able fail without death resulting. And for the girls... if its round and spins, you can always find a guy to use it to haul your gear for you.
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evanwish
Jul 31, 2010, 3:12 AM
Post #47 of 51
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panacea82 wrote: How do you all like to haul a pig. I have only used a mini-trax with body weight as a counter,but now that im looking at more walls on el cap. I know the basics for a 3 to 1 and a 5 to 1 but just wondering if anyone has any tricks up there sleeve that they would want to share.
Ok... interesting thread! Well back to the OP:
So with my [only] 12 pitches of hauling experience I've perfected my personal system.
On the Prow my pig was about 160 pounds the first day (we brought a lot of food and water) so I used the 3:1 (I weigh 132). The system I use may sound slow, but its really fast when the bag slightly outweighs you. I was usually done hauling before my partner got done cleaning 25% of the pitch. (since I was doing all the leading, that extra time was my best time to enjoy the scenery! ha)
I might need to draw this up, and if it sounds like gibberish, let me know... but here goes:
I anchor myself with a clove hitch with about 15 feet of slack, and then attach myself to the anchor side with a grigri so a can adjust exactly how far i am from the anchor.
After setting up the 3:1, the downward facing ascender gets a 6' sling clipped to the "top" loop of the ascender. Then clip an oval to the upward facing ascender (the one you pull on) to lock it onto the rope. you'll see why later. Then get low below the anchor.
Position your body perpendicular to the wall by walking your feet up the wall and lean back. You don't have to use any muscle, but it'll wayy speed it up if you do. Also, doing a soft "jump" up makes it a lot faster, but alot more tiring: use sparingly, like when you're trying to get the bag over a tough section.
When the system has to be reset (usually after about 15 pulls), unlock the ascender you're pulling on and just leg go of it (don't worry about it falling, thats why you put the oval there, duh). Then pull down on that 6' sling and get that downward ascender as farrrr down as you can! Re-lock the pulling ascender and have at it again.
My experience was that hauling was really easy, and since I was leading all the pitches, it was my best "relax" time to enjoy the scenery.
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evanwish
Jul 31, 2010, 5:33 AM
Post #48 of 51
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Here's my drawing of my preferred system:
That was a great way to kill some boredom!
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xtrmecat
Aug 2, 2010, 7:04 PM
Post #50 of 51
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I see this old dredged up overblown topic is on the front page, so I figured it was worth another forgotten detail.
Evans diagram is pretty good. I changed one thing to his system this year and it made a difference. I back myself to the anchor somehow, with just knots at my harness and the other at the anchor, no ascender, no grigri here either. I do not use the ascender where I am trying to pull the haul line, that is where I put the grigri. It seems to tend up the slack much faster, as I just yard on the slack side as I crawl my butt from the bottom of the haul back towards the device, arrive and then lean back. When the piggy weighs a lot, I continue to lean back and walk the feet right up to the anchor, continue to lean back, and then do a leg press out from the anchor while pulling up on my inverted ascender to get the whole mess moving again. I have been able to 1:1 some pretty big loads with not too much profanity and sweating, and haven't had the second beat the pigs to the belay yet.
I had a partner for a wall this spring that was about 20 or more lbs less than me, and he even did loads I know where over his weight using this method, and the grigri on the haul line was his idea, and so much faster than anything else I tried, I will not even bother doing it my old way again. Thanks Oliver.
Bob
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stockings.jpg
