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Partner camhead


Aug 6, 2010, 3:21 AM
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Re: [johnwesely] Feedback on my plan plz [In reply to]
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As many people have alluded to, the best thing for you to do is climb, a lot, in the gym and outside. Unless you are really out of shape, the cardio is not going to help. Hangboard stuff will be mediocre at best– it's actually most effective for climbers who are more advanced. Yoga is good, but hell, I'd recomment yoga to anybody.

What nobody has mentioned yet is core strength, and that is one of the most undervalued elements of climbing training. If, when you are in the gym, you find yourself lunging for holds, sagging, and exhibiting poor posture, amp up the abs exercises. Your joints will thank you in the long run.

Oh, and check this thread for more on getting back into it.


Partner camhead


Aug 6, 2010, 3:22 AM
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Re: [camhead] Feedback on my plan plz [In reply to]
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^^^PTFTW!!!^^^


bustloose


Aug 6, 2010, 2:34 PM
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Re: [camhead] Feedback on my plan plz [In reply to]
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you most definitely cannot 'PTFTW' after the fact!

John, you're not playing devils advocate, you're being an idiot. "danger in pre-climbing training" do you even read what you write?? there is easily more risk of injury in jumping into climbing off the couch.

and to the dude who doesn't like my "boring approach" - do you know what feedback means? it does not mean suggest something completely different and not in line with the original plan.
You cannot simply tell someone who has asked for "pre-season" training advice to go climbing. that makes you an idiot, and an asshole. it's not helpful.

OF COURSE going climbing is good for your climbing, but that's not the f*cking question.
*Just* going climbing is not the best way to get back into climbing shape quickly, you need to supplement with training. If you find training boring then that's too bad for you, have fun performing below your potential, but that isn't for everybody. Some of us are athletes, and want to push ourselves in our chosen sport, that doesn't mean that we don't enjoy climbing for climbing sake. It's absolutely insane to think that climbing for fun and performance are mutually exclusive.


johnwesely


Aug 6, 2010, 3:02 PM
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Re: [bustloose] Feedback on my plan plz [In reply to]
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bustloose wrote:
you most definitely cannot 'PTFTW' after the fact!

John, you're not playing devils advocate, you're being an idiot. "danger in pre-climbing training" do you even read what you write?? there is easily more risk of injury in jumping into climbing off the couch.

and to the dude who doesn't like my "boring approach" - do you know what feedback means? it does not mean suggest something completely different and not in line with the original plan.
You cannot simply tell someone who has asked for "pre-season" training advice to go climbing. that makes you an idiot, and an asshole. it's not helpful.

OF COURSE going climbing is good for your climbing, but that's not the f*cking question.
*Just* going climbing is not the best way to get back into climbing shape quickly, you need to supplement with training. If you find training boring then that's too bad for you, have fun performing below your potential, but that isn't for everybody. Some of us are athletes, and want to push ourselves in our chosen sport, that doesn't mean that we don't enjoy climbing for climbing sake. It's absolutely insane to think that climbing for fun and performance are mutually exclusive.

Why are you so angry? If it is because I made fun of your training plan on a web forum, then maybe you need some counseling. If it is because you think I gave bad advice to the OP, I still stand by my advice. If the OP does a bunch of pull ups, or whatever, when he goes into climbing he will likely pull with his arms more than necessary because it will be easier. Sloppy footwork is the easiest way to injure something. For techniques sake, he would be better off getting back into it with weak arms.

Once again, I am sorry I so offended you.


bustloose


Aug 6, 2010, 5:14 PM
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Re: [johnwesely] Feedback on my plan plz [In reply to]
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i'm not angry, i didn't make a "training plan" and you didn't offend me. you're just an idiot posting unhelpful garbage in a technique and training forum.


clarkenstein


Aug 6, 2010, 5:26 PM
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Re: [camhead] Feedback on my plan plz [In reply to]
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camhead wrote:
As many people have alluded to, the best thing for you to do is climb, a lot, in the gym and outside. Unless you are really out of shape, the cardio is not going to help. Hangboard stuff will be mediocre at best– it's actually most effective for climbers who are more advanced. Yoga is good, but hell, I'd recomment yoga to anybody.

What nobody has mentioned yet is core strength, and that is one of the most undervalued elements of climbing training. If, when you are in the gym, you find yourself lunging for holds, sagging, and exhibiting poor posture, amp up the abs exercises. Your joints will thank you in the long run.

Oh, and check this thread for more on getting back into it.

insanely entertaining link - also some good stuff. thanks. i'll be sure to never use the cliche of getting back into it again - haha.

i totally agree about the core work. believe it or not, its key for mtn biking too so i try to keep my core at some level that's better than 'not lazy and fat'. but climbing demands a lot more than what i have gotten used to.

i wish i had time to get to the gym, but with one 2 y/o and another on the way, that's just not going to happen. living in a townhouse also takes away the indoor/home wall option (really strict association rules).

i have decided that during my next mtn bike ride this weekend i'm gonna throw rock shoes in my camelback and ride to some boulders at a local preserve and test the waters on some easier stuff in the middle of the ride.

btw - this forum is pretty awesome - i'm glad i found it. some great info mixed in with lots "passionate" dicussions. it makes the mtn bike forums look sleepy.

again thanks for the input everyone.


johnwesely


Aug 6, 2010, 5:44 PM
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Re: [bustloose] Feedback on my plan plz [In reply to]
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bustloose wrote:
i'm not angry, i didn't make a "training plan" and you didn't offend me. you're just an idiot posting unhelpful garbage in a technique and training forum.

You sound both angry and offended. I may very well be an idiot.


Bag11s


Aug 6, 2010, 7:58 PM
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Re: [clarkenstein] Feedback on my plan plz [In reply to]
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Sidepull- I never said training wasn’t important. I was extolling the virtues of going climbing to someone who is trying to get back in to the sport after a long break, someone with limited time caused by expanding family constraints. My intension was to get him to reconsider climbing by itself as a more enjoyable and quicker way to get back into climbing shape. No distaste for hard work or discipline mentioned here.

Bustloose- I am neither an idiot nor an asshole. You know nothing of my approach to training for climbing, or what my goals are, or how I go about reaching them. I was not off-topic to recommend climbing a lot at this stage to the OP. I do not believe it to be true that he will find it quicker to get back in climbing shape by spending a lot of time in the gym over a relatively short period that he has identified as ‘six base weeks’. In my opinion, he would be better served in this period using those hours climbing, and/or bouldering, which would contribute to some modest climbing-specific improvements in fitness, endurance, and technique. I used the terms “conservative, cautious, and boring” for their heightened emotional character- to make the exact opposite point that it’s probably more fun, and therefore more constructive at this stage, to just get after it.


ceebo


Aug 7, 2010, 4:20 PM
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Re: [Bag11s] Feedback on my plan plz [In reply to]
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I guess a door frame would be too hard for you too deadhang atm. Is it not possible you can screw say a 3/4 inch rail up above 1 of your doors?. Even perhaps a inch rail, thats still quite difficult for you coming back. You could easily start 2 sessions a week and then step it upto 4 times a week once your body feels upto it. By the last week you could be hanging on the original door frame (mine is like 1/4th of a inch or somthing). But that would depend on how fast your body is able to adapt.. and that you dont push too much.

Most of those other things you mentiond, i only really seen such training plans for active climbers training their off muscles. Since your not climbing it doesnt seem very benificial for you to do any of those.

Finger strength will take the longest to get back, so if it was me i would be working on that from home. The technique and upper body strength can be finely traind back up when you start climbing. Although some 4-5 stage pull up to lock offs to go with the deadhangs would probably have some effect into your upcoming climbing. You could train upto those lockoffs on a 1 inch rail im sure.


bustloose


Aug 9, 2010, 3:20 PM
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Re: [Bag11s] Feedback on my plan plz [In reply to]
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Bag11s wrote:
Bustloose- I am neither an idiot nor an asshole. You know nothing of my approach to training for climbing, or what my goals are, or how I go about reaching them. I was not off-topic to recommend climbing a lot at this stage to the OP. I do not believe it to be true that he will find it quicker to get back in climbing shape by spending a lot of time in the gym over a relatively short period that he has identified as ‘six base weeks’. In my opinion, he would be better served in this period using those hours climbing, and/or bouldering, which would contribute to some modest climbing-specific improvements in fitness, endurance, and technique. I used the terms “conservative, cautious, and boring” for their heightened emotional character- to make the exact opposite point that it’s probably more fun, and therefore more constructive at this stage, to just get after it.

i promise, you're an asshole. i have an idea, let's create a similar situation and use it as a comparison tool.

Dude: "i've been to Font a bunch of times, and i love it, but it's been a few years, and i have a young family now and just can't afford the time or expense to go. help me out, where can i go for a week long bouldering trip in the Southeast?? thanks!"

You: "Dude, go to Font, it's awesome."

yeah, you're an asshole.


billcoe_


Aug 9, 2010, 10:38 PM
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Feedback on my plan plz [In reply to]
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From a man who trained all of his life with a break or 2 in there for something like a car accident.

“Every day I go out and climb, like a dancer who works on his dance. He probably has some goals, some pieces he would like to perform, but his main goal is to work on his dance. This is how he expresses himself. Both he and I are interested in the same thing. It’s the dance that counts.” – John Bachar 1957 – 2009

Welcome back to the Tribe.


Bag11s


Aug 10, 2010, 1:10 AM
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Re: [bustloose] Feedback on my plan plz [In reply to]
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Dude: "i've been to Font a bunch of times, and i love it, but it's been a few years, and i have a young family now and just can't afford the time or expense to go. help me out, where can i go for a week long bouldering trip in the Southeast?? thanks!"

You: "Dude, go to Horsepens, it's awesome."

Fixed that for you, although you seem to be getting on the right track, surprisingly.


bustloose


Aug 10, 2010, 1:31 PM
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Re: [Bag11s] Feedback on my plan plz [In reply to]
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the level at which you do not understand your own words is astounding.


clarkenstein


Aug 10, 2010, 8:44 PM
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Re: [billcoe_] Feedback on my plan plz [In reply to]
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billcoe_ wrote:
From a man who trained all of his life with a break or 2 in there for something like a car accident.

“Every day I go out and climb, like a dancer who works on his dance. He probably has some goals, some pieces he would like to perform, but his main goal is to work on his dance. This is how he expresses himself. Both he and I are interested in the same thing. It’s the dance that counts.” – John Bachar 1957 – 2009

Welcome back to the Tribe.

THAT is awesome. thank you.

here's an update - i went for a mountain bike ride at my favorite place to ride (Sourlands, NJ, yes i do live in a landmass armpit). i clipped my climbing shoes to my camelback and rode up to one of the areas of boulders and popped on my shoes to give some real rock a shot.

so the person(s) who said hand strength is key are the winners. holy smokes its all about hand strength right now. extremely generous crimpy holds suck.

i tried out three boulders. one was a slabby thing that had no spots for feet, hit the top that had a sloper-ish top out. blew off a bunch. next tried this short crimpy thing - two small crimp/pinchy holds up to a jug top, i felt best on this one, but got sketched when attempting to top out. then i tried a nice crimpy traverse that has me starting the problem obsession. i'm riding back ASAP to get this thing.

observations:
- 95 degrees and humid sucks, whether riding in it or climbing in it.
- every climber should get a mountain bike - it makes your approach so much faster and the descent from the boulders a million times more fun
- my hands and forearms are WEAK. definitely the weakest link right now... but i'm sticking with the pull up routine, it can't hurt.

i'll be out again this weekend. now i gotta figure out if i can ride my bike with a crashpad on my back...


billcoe_


Aug 11, 2010, 4:39 AM
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Re: [clarkenstein] Feedback on my plan plz [In reply to]
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clarkenstein wrote:
observations:
- 95 degrees and humid sucks, whether riding in it or climbing in it.
- every climber should get a mountain bike - it makes your approach so much faster and the descent from the boulders a million times more fun
- my hands and forearms are WEAK. definitely the weakest link right now... but i'm sticking with the pull up routine, it can't hurt.

i'll be out again this weekend. now i gotta figure out if i can ride my bike with a crashpad on my back...

Good on you for getting on it! You should check out a hangboard or rock rings as suggested above,
it will also toughen the skin up on your tips. Be real careful to warm up in advance and not rush it prematurely as tendons take a while to adapt to the stress. They say that training is one of the best things you can do to avoid a later injury while climbing. I believe that is true, and it helps your performance as well. Eric Horst has some great climbing specific books. He repeatedly stresses that injury avoidance should be your number one goal. Anyone who is injured will agree with that. Here's his web site.

http://www.trainingforclimbing.com/

Good luck and keep on it!

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