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ptownclimber
Nov 6, 2007, 8:18 PM
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How harmful is it to the learning experience to take when climbing near one's limit?
For example: towards the end of the day, on a route you haven't climbed before, at a difficulty level you've climbed at before but not your maximum...you get tired and ask for a take rather than risking a fall.
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arnoilgner
Nov 7, 2007, 1:46 AM
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hi ptownclimber,
it depends on what you are wanting to learn. what is the intent of the climb? do you want to redpoint/onsight the route? or, are you just working moves? or do you just want a cool down route for the end of the day?
if you are wanting to redpoint/onsight then saying "take" is the worst thing you can do if you want to learn. essentially, saying "take" allows you to escape the stress of the climbing but IN the stress is where learning occurs. once you say "take" you are back in your comfort zone and learning stops.
perhaps this helps?
arno
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jgloporto
Jan 11, 2008, 5:22 PM
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ptownclimber wrote: How harmful is it to the learning experience to take when climbing near one's limit? For example: towards the end of the day, on a route you haven't climbed before, at a difficulty level you've climbed at before but not your maximum...you get tired and ask for a take rather than risking a fall.
I never yell take, ever.
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IclimbNAKED
Dec 17, 2008, 9:05 PM
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This. I like this.
I've felt similarly when bouldering (our rule, since my buddy and I have only climbed sport is to climb until a fall then swap, no takes really), and I want to push myself to keep going and if I fall then I fall, but there are times when I don't push myself to the limit and it's more of a jump off then look at the problem. But I think I just need to keep that pressure up longer and establish an inner confidence that I can probably sequence the whole thing if I really try.
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havard
Jan 14, 2009, 9:44 AM
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My climbing partner fixed his problem with "take" on a beautiful way. While I was traveling this fall, he showed a friend of his the ropes. But he did not teach this friend the word "take". Now we are both learning to deal with falling, and I can not think of a better way than just removing "take" from the options.
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caliclimbergrl
Jan 15, 2009, 9:11 PM
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Before I respond, I'll go ahead and say I do this WAY TOO OFTEN. In my defense, I broke my ankle in a really bad lead fall a year and a half ago and my lead head is still messed up from it. Still, I disagree with others who have said things like learning stops when you take. I think there is an optimal level of stress during lead climbing. When you are at that level and leading at your limit, the stress produces an intense level of focus. You're aware of nothing but the climb and though I think this focus is produced by stress, the result is actually incredibly relaxing and climbing just flows naturally! However, if the stress level gets to high, I think it actually prevents you from climbing. Ideally, you should be very aware of what would happen if you fell, but you're not distracted by the idea. If you're so preoccupied with the idea of falling that you aren't focused on the climb, I think it's okay to put in a piece of gear and hang on it for a minute to take some breaths and pull yourself together before completing the climb. If you're just not sure if you can make a move or not, I'd say go ahead and sew it up (irrelevant for sport climbers), but move through the hard part and take the fall if it comes to it. Admittedly, it's hard for me to take my own advice on this one, but I'm working on it.
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puerto
Jan 20, 2009, 9:39 PM
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There's lots of other possibilities for what you could learn:
You could learn how to downclimb so you can back up your piece and say take and ease on to them.
You could not say take and learn that your belayer has fallen in love with dynamic belaying.. That's right, even on less than vertical territory. And then you might learn that that ledge you thought was a safe 12 feet below as you fly from 3 feet above the bolt/piece is now tearing your ankle apart.
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Terry2124
Apr 25, 2009, 12:54 PM
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jgloporto wrote: ptownclimber wrote: How harmful is it to the learning experience to take when climbing near one's limit? For example: towards the end of the day, on a route you haven't climbed before, at a difficulty level you've climbed at before but not your maximum...you get tired and ask for a take rather than risking a fall. I never yell take, ever.
Same
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CrazyPetie
Jul 4, 2009, 11:55 PM
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When i first started climbing i didn't even know people would do this. We just went up and expected to take whips, it was part of the fun. Then i started climbing with this older chick and she would say TAKE every bolt. I was like, what the fuck is she doing? Its just terrible style in my opinion, and it gives us sport climbers a bad name. After climbing with her for a while, i was climbing some 11. I got to the last bolt and yelled TAKE, then i said to myself "no way i'm not doin that," and i said NEVER MIND and kept climbing. I ended up falling but i learned that i could keep going. Next go i red-pointed the route.
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surfergirl
Jul 14, 2009, 9:44 PM
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i just started leading...is "take" even possible when you're above the bolt, or is it just something that's used when you're below in the bolt and clipped in? every time i've ever wished i could "take" has been when i've above the bolt, and by that time i figure i'm screwed so i have to just climb until i fall.
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jt512
Jul 21, 2009, 11:53 PM
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surfergirl wrote: i just started leading...is "take" even possible when you're above the bolt, or is it just something that's used when you're below in the bolt and clipped in? every time i've ever wished i could "take" has been when i've above the bolt, and by that time i figure i'm screwed so i have to just climb until i fall.
You don't want to "take" when you're above your pro. The tension in the rope will pendulum you into the wall. It's a good way to break an ankle.
Jay
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kriso9tails
Jul 22, 2009, 6:57 PM
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jt512 wrote: surfergirl wrote: i just started leading...is "take" even possible when you're above the bolt, or is it just something that's used when you're below in the bolt and clipped in? every time i've ever wished i could "take" has been when i've above the bolt, and by that time i figure i'm screwed so i have to just climb until i fall. You don't want to "take" when you're above your pro. The tension in the rope will pendulum you into the wall. It's a good way to break an ankle. Jay
I have seen this happen first hand several times. It tends to be a waste of a climbing day for the belayer and a severely busted ankle for the climber.
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surfergirl
Jul 22, 2009, 10:53 PM
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jt512 wrote: surfergirl wrote: i just started leading...is "take" even possible when you're above the bolt, or is it just something that's used when you're below in the bolt and clipped in? every time i've ever wished i could "take" has been when i've above the bolt, and by that time i figure i'm screwed so i have to just climb until i fall. You don't want to "take" when you're above your pro. The tension in the rope will pendulum you into the wall. It's a good way to break an ankle. Jay
that's what i thought. "Take" seems kind of useless then because if you're not above your bolt, you wouldn't have that far to fall anyway.
incidentally, i was leading this weekend and told my belayer "watch me." i didn't get a response. i yelled to her, "i said watch me, did you hear me?" she said "i thought you said take." i said "NO DON'T TAKE i'm moving up!" so glad i clarified that...take would have been BAD.
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USnavy
Aug 5, 2009, 12:38 PM
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ptownclimber wrote: How harmful is it to the learning experience to take when climbing near one's limit?
Climbing until you fall is the benchmark of being a solid lead climber. Thats one of the ways you can tell an experienced leader from some rookie thats just messing around. If you want to lead harder routes you need to be able to push it to the max on lead. Being able to push it to the max on lead requires you to understand that falling is part of climbing and that it will happen (often).
Now if you’re calling for a take on a project that you cannot redpoint (yet) so you can look at the route and work the moves, that’s fine. But if you’re calling for a take because you’re scared, you need to get out of that mentality.
(This post was edited by USnavy on Aug 5, 2009, 12:43 PM)
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lhwang
Aug 8, 2009, 9:02 PM
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surfergirl wrote: every time i've ever wished i could "take" has been when i've above the bolt, and by that time i figure i'm screwed so i have to just climb until i fall.
The other option you would have would be to downclimb... if you're getting yourself into a bad situation (bad gear below, dangerous fall, etc.) continuing to go up could make things a lot worse.
(This post was edited by lhwang on Aug 8, 2009, 9:07 PM)
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minorclimber
Oct 17, 2009, 12:26 PM
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I say take when I get to the top. only then, other than that I shout " watch me!!" and jump for it. I always shout my requests twice, because my mom (go ahead laugh. I'm 12) just learned to belay, and she makes me nervous when I jump on overhanging 5.11's because my max is 5.10's, and I know I'm gonna fall.
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darkgift06
Sep 16, 2010, 7:34 PM
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is it bad that when my partner yells take, I yell back NO, Keep climbing to the rest!
if he yells back something like "omg I can't, I might take a whip" I might take up a bit.
but if its just because hes tired I'll try to talk him out of the take, so that he can push his limits & get stronger.
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spikeddem
Sep 21, 2010, 4:09 PM
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darkgift06 wrote: is it bad that when my partner yells take, I yell back NO, Keep climbing to the rest! if he yells back something like "omg I can't, I might take a whip" I might take up a bit. but if its just because hes tired I'll try to talk him out of the take, so that he can push his limits & get stronger.
This is something you should be talking to your partner about before it comes up, not with us, after the fact.
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erisspirit
Oct 8, 2010, 9:33 PM
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darkgift06 wrote: is it bad that when my partner yells take, I yell back NO, Keep climbing to the rest! if he yells back something like "omg I can't, I might take a whip" I might take up a bit. but if its just because hes tired I'll try to talk him out of the take, so that he can push his limits & get stronger.
Yeah that really depends on the partner... some people work well being pushed that way... some are damn serious when they say take and expect their belayer to respond accordingly.
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