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cracklover
Mar 8, 2003, 12:06 AM
Post #26 of 30
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Registered: Nov 14, 2002
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I may get flamed for saying this, but that's fine.
I think da5id is right on. Some guys are jerks. Most aren't. That's about the only simple fact of the matter. Everything else is complicated, and Kate, perhaps your current edginess is leading you to try to oversimplify it. Of course this stuff is complicated - life's like that, especially male/female relations! Language is a subtle but powerful tool, and some people like to play with the line between compliment and come-on. Last I checked, it was called flirting. For times when you want conversation with no potential of a sexual edge to it, climb w/ (straight) members of your own sex, or folks who you know and trust. If someone's not playing by the same rules as you, just take your marbles and go home - you're in charge of the company you keep!
Kate, I think I have a slightly different view of feminism than you do. Mine says that women are empowered to be strong in whatever way they choose, whether it's being the best alpine climber in the world, getting breast enhancement surgery, being an influential scientist, being a stay-at-home-mom or a CEO, having wild sex with the partner(s) of her choice, following a deep spiritual path, or all or none of the above! How this powerful woman interacts with the world - whether she's a shameless (and proud) flirt or a woman who prefers to be treated asexually except in rare cases, is her own business - not yours, not mine. And I think men should have the freedom to do the same. So long as no-one's getting hurt, we should _encourage_ folks to be their own person - even if they're off-putting to you or me.
[/rant]
Oh, and on compliments: Climberchic - I can understand why you might get a few PMs. You look fabulous in a number of the photos you've posted. This is actually _not_ meant as a come-on (I try not to make promises I can't fulfill :wink: ). Just an honest observation.
GO
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otter
Mar 8, 2003, 12:08 AM
Post #27 of 30
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Registered: Jun 11, 2002
Posts: 489
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A very interesting topic with many intellegent and interesting replies.
I am not one to conform to societies expectations unless it fits me personally. I am a woman who does not shave...choosing to leave my body natural. I get far more negative reactions from women on that point than men...yet I have heard numerous times it is just one more thing that men have imposed on women...which is far from true...If a person conforms to a societies ideas of what should and shouldn't be...in personally related matters...then it is THEM that conforms...not the people around a person supposedly forcing them to be a certain way. It takes a lot of personal integrity to do what YOU feel is right for YOU...verses what is "expected" of you from society. (or even in a social situation for that matter)
Think of how many people refuse to even meet eyes with a person they pass on a side walk. Try smiling at someone as you pass them...and many will look scared as hell or they will be even more ardant to avoid eye contact. Yet I would far rather have everyone meet eyes and at least nod a head in recognition than feed the fear so many people have of others by being so self protecting. Think of how much more we would know of those around us if we all met eyes as we passed. I find it easy to read a person in that situation...at least on a level to at least know if the person is a threat or not. I for one would feel safer in this society if more people were more open.
I am also a women who has very few female friends..and finds it difficult to make them. I grew up mainly around guys...I found that they related things in far simpler terms...were more apt to just say what they were thinking and not ask questions they didn't want the honest truthful answer to. Women...for the most part... have been far more complicated. And I have a difficult time relating to them.
As for comments and compliments. I would far rather have some one be straight forward and honest about what they think than to have them be secretive and closed up... those are the people I am wary of. I wonder what they have to hide. Ofcourse some are just shy... but that also is easy t descern, for me at least.
The human body (male and female) is an artform...with many different forms and even "mediums". I think it is perfectly natural to appreciate that art form. (just as someone mentined appreciating and staring at a sunset) And find it possible to do so without feeling like it has to lead to sex. But an even deeper art form... is the make up of peoples personalities. Something that is deeper and not so easily ascessed as the solid material of the human body. How can we assume anything about how someone means something unless we ask...or the person makes it clear in the first place. I feel that in that point it all comes down to communication. Here are two examples:
I had been on a multi day backpack trip..was absolutley filthy and had a sunny day and a beautiful lake to take a bath of sorts in. I was pretty far out into the wilderness..and although I was not the only one there... I did have some privacy. I stripped and dove in. After a while along came a couple guys with fishing poles...they saw me..and stopped and stared, but did not say anything even after quite a lapse of time. I looked straight at them and said Hi. They just stared at me and did not respond. I found that very threatening and rude. I could care less if they had looked..even stared for a moment..but to not be polite in responding to my greeting...scared me. They gave me the creeps. I stayed out in the lake for a while and after 10 more minutes they still had said nothing and were still staring. At which point I got pissed. Knowing that i can defend myself helped inthis situation..but i still fealt threatened. I finely told them point blank to get lost. That I planned on coming out of the water and did not appreciate there being there. Amazingly they left. (They were not adolecents..so they weren't just shell shocked.)
Another situation...at a hotspring... I had the place to myself...when another guy showed up..stripped down and got in, talking the whole time and always keeping eye contact. I knew immediatley this guy was safe and had no problem with our mutual nudity.
It is amazing the difference that just a little communication can make.
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overlord
Apr 11, 2003, 11:13 AM
Post #28 of 30
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Registered: Mar 25, 2002
Posts: 14120
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90% of compliments are because someone is hitting on you. what the other 10% are, i dont know :P
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katydid
Apr 11, 2003, 11:43 AM
Post #29 of 30
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Registered: Aug 13, 2002
Posts: 3212
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Dude, that's CYNICAL. :shock:
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jakedatc
Apr 22, 2003, 10:47 PM
Post #30 of 30
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Registered: Mar 12, 2003
Posts: 11054
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Brian (Da5id ) i'll 2nd what you said as it is how i've been thinking for for a few weeks now for a few reasons.
a) I like climbing, mtn biking, skiing etc.. generally girls that climb are or would be interested in these things too..
b) climbing is a social activity like anything else.. people go to bars to meet other people that go to bars.. why not go to a gym, cliff, boulder spot to meet others that go to the same place (i'm not into drinking and bars so other places will have to do)
c) you meet the "right" person anywhere and if no one says anything then a really good friendship or more could be lost for both sides
on that note.. there are those guys that are rude, inconsiderate and just well ____ fill in the blank that leave the guys that aren't in the "guys suck" (as my female friends like to tell me) catagory when some don't deserve it
Jake
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