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kickasssoprano
Oct 14, 2011, 7:28 PM
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Hello everyone,
I wanted to give you all a little update- everything is going really well with my pregnancy so far- I'll be 27 weeks on Sunday (almost 6 months).
Many of you know, I lost my first baby at 15 weeks- as a result, I have been really paranoid this time around. I stopped climbing and took it super easy in my first trimester, but picked up my fitness in the second with moderate workouts on the (boring) elliptical and rowing machine, modified push ups and squats as well as lots of walking. I miss climbing like crazy and was wondering how mommies who took time off of climbing found getting back to it after baby? My plan is to take up bouldering again once baby arrives (bring him or her with me to the gym) and then climb occasionally with a partner when I can organize childcare. How hard was it to get back into climbing shape after taking 9 months off? I was already pretty fit and strong when I started climbing (went from a competitive muay thai - Thai kick boxing- to climbing) and I feel that while I've continued to stay active, I'm definitely not as strong or have as good endurance as I did pre pregnancy. How long after baby comes do I have to wait before I start bouldering again? How long approximately do you feel that it took you to get back into shape after that long of a break? I'm worried I'll feel frustrated as I was just starting to boulder V2/V3 and climb 11a/b before I got pregnant- and now I'm worried I won't be able to do any bouldering problems, or worse, end up injuring myself...
Any advice?
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lena_chita
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Oct 14, 2011, 8:03 PM
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I think climbing is no different than any other sport in terms of "getting back into it" after the baby. The common recommendation I've seen is, in case of normal vaginal delivery, it is O.K. to resume aerobic exercise within 2 weeks.
I personally would say to take it easy until bleeding stops (e.i. 5-6 weeks), because of personal experience. IMO starting too soon will only set you back and slow down your recovery.
And also, 2 weeks post-partum most new mothers that I know are still emotionally in the dreamland of gazing at their sleeping baby and wondering how this miracle came into their life and what did they do to deserve it, and how is it possible to love this little creature so much. So the likelihood is that even if you are physically in a tip-top shape, emotionally you won't be yet ready for much more than a short stroll with a baby, with light jogging thrown in if you are really ambitious.
Bringing the baby with you to the gym is all fine and good, but IMO, if you have the ability to do so, you will get a better and more efficient workout if you leave your baby at home for couple hours. I think I'd rather come to the gym once a week without a baby than come to the gym 3 times a week with a baby, in terms of hassle/frustration levels, and return on your time investment.
When you go climbing outside for the entire weekend, it is much harder to leave the baby at home, and easier to bring him/her along, because you have large periods of down-time from climbing to spend with the baby. But for couple hours of concentrated training at the gym, leaving the baby at home may be better for you and the baby (does he/she really need to breathe all that chalk dust?) Of course, it is not all-or-nothing thing. You can bring the baby with you some of the time, and I am sure all your female friends will love to hold him/her, play, cuddle and admire him (for a short period of time, that is, LOL)
But in terms of regaining before-baby climbing shape, I think you don't have much to worry about. Even if you took 1year-long break, the climbing technique that you have learned is still staying with you. Sure, you will feel weak when you start climbing again, you will likely have extra weight on you initially, which won't be helping, but you will regain your previous climbing level much faster than if you were a new climber starting from scratch. And there is no reason why you wouldn't then progress further, too.
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kickasssoprano
Oct 14, 2011, 8:12 PM
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Thanks for the advice!
I'm pretty lucky in that the gym that I boulder at is really kid friendly- there is a little room that is partially separated where baby can sleep and I can still hear (and see) him or her- Also, the time that I'd go is really quiet. I used to go right when the gym opened while I was doing my undergrad and was usually the only person there so there wasn't too much chalk dust. Also when kiddo gets older, they have kids bouldering groups at my gym too! I'm going to be on maternity leave for a year and will be home alone- once baby is about 6 months old, my dad should be home (he's a teacher and lives quite close to my gym) so I can leave baby with him.
Thanks for the feedback!
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clee03m
Oct 15, 2011, 2:35 AM
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How well you will climb after baby depends on your commitment and time. I know at least one mom who climbs harder after she had her baby. Physiologically you will be the best shape ever after you have your baby (after you recover), and if you can dedicate same amount of time and intensity, you should be better than before. This has been true with some olympians.
My doctor gave me the ok at 2 weeks but was take it easy until I stopped bleeding (around 6 weeks). I was ok with this. I felt like a train wreck afterwards and wanted to recover anyways. I started easy climbing after 3 weeks. Light bouldering.
I don't climb as well because I just don't climb as much as before.
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smallclimber
Oct 15, 2011, 8:08 PM
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I think pysically you can probably get to a comparable level within a few months even if you have not climbed during pregnancy. Just dropping 15 lbs or so in one go makes you feel like you have wings (OK, not quite, but it is nice to be lighter again).
However other factors are more likely to slow down progress than purely physical. Sleepless nights, need for continual visits to Target becouse you forgot to buy diapers, if you are breastfeeding it can be difficult to be away too long and if you return to work you may feel too tired in the evenings or guilty at the weekend to train.
I enjoyed going to the gym to boulder with baby while I was on maternity leave. It was a large, new, clean gym (no obvious chalk dust) and on a weekday afternoon there were often only a couple of people there. To be honest I think these visits were less about climbing and more about just making sure we got out and did something, but it seemed to work well for both of us.
My husband and I also found we could visit together and toprope for an hour or so while she was young without needing a third person. She'd sit in her car seat when very young, then lie on a mat, then sit on a mat, and enjoy watching, listending to the music and seeing people moving around. This all went pear shaped at about 9 months when she started crawling and we quickly realised she could get into trouble faster than we could untie and reach her!
It sounds like you are taking a year off so you will have some options and if you are home should will not feel guilty about taking some time on your own for climbing.
Good luck!
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kickasssoprano
Oct 16, 2011, 1:44 AM
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Thanks for the feedback everyone!
I have a treadmill in my house, so I plan to continue using that until I'm ready to venture outside- I'm due January 15 so I may not even feel like going outside for a little while. I think I'll stick to bouldering when I can. Getting back to where I was isn't a huge concern of mine, I'm just 6 months pregnant and feeling giant- daydreaming about being light and fit again 
I just wanted to make sure I don't injure myself by trying to get back into it too soon- I'm having a somewhat uncomfortable pregnancy and my body doesn't quite feel like my own any more so I guess I'm wondering how long it will take until it does. Thanks again, you ladies have been really supportive and helpful.
Jess
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jeepnphreak
Oct 18, 2011, 9:56 PM
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Not to worry, My wife is on her second and she went stright in to climbing after our first was born. She had to take things slow at first because the ab muscles are pretty stretched out and are weak. ABS will tone up pretty quick. just start climbgin again dont over do it and youll be back up to your original in a no time.
Oh yeah and 9 months off HA HA HA HAHAHAH!
here is my sweetie at 30 weeks a top a 3 pitch 5.7. When she is not preggres she normally onsites 5.10ds
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alicias
Oct 19, 2011, 7:05 PM
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Jess,
You and I are just about the same amount along in our pregnancies. I'm having many of the same concerns. I really don't want to delay the start of next season and I really really want to get back to leading as soon as possible after the baby.
My strategy is to lessen what ground I lose by keeping up the climbing. I'm still averaging about two days a week outside with some maintenance level cardio during the week. I can't climb hard anymore. Last week, I barely got up Annie O (8+ in the Gunks), so that is more or less my max.
After the baby I'm thinking of doing P90x along with gym climbing to jumpstart my fitness. Keep me posted on your progress, and I will try to do the same.
Here I am a couple of days ago sporting my super stylish body harness, not the most comfortable.
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clee03m
Oct 20, 2011, 4:31 PM
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Jess, don't worry about taking 9 months off. If you don't feel comfortable climbing during pregnancy, there is nothing wrong with waiting. I ended up taking over 4 months off last pregnancy because of pelvic pain. And I have taken over 6 months in the past for non-pregnancy reasons. I can tell you that in my experience, getting back into climbing after pregnancy felt no different than after any other break. Just as any time after a break, your technique is pretty much intact but you will be weak. Core and arm strength are weak. Added weight doesn't help, of course. But this is true regardless. But you do have physiology of a body that was supporting a baby as an advantage. Your lung and heart have much more reserve.
Babies are awesome to take to the gym when they are little! They fall alseep in the car and stay asleep if you are lucky. Otherwise, they are happy to sit in the car seat and hang out. If you are breastfeeding, all you need are some diapers and change of clothes, and you are set! When they get a little older, things get a bit more complicated...
I know what you mean about dreaming of climbing. You will regain your strength in no time and be climbing as hard or harder. Good luck to you.
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drivel
Oct 29, 2011, 4:45 PM
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jeepnphreak wrote: Not to worry, My wife is on her second and she went stright in to climbing after our first was born. She had to take things slow at first because the ab muscles are pretty stretched out and are weak. ABS will tone up pretty quick. just start climbgin again dont over do it and youll be back up to your original in a no time. Oh yeah and 9 months off HA HA HA HAHAHAH! here is my sweetie at 30 weeks a top a 3 pitch 5.7. When she is not preggres she normally onsites 5.10ds
no offense, but honestly.... that picture makes me go wtf?? is that harness even able to be over her hip bones? 'cause it sure as hell looks like your wife would fall out of it if she were to invert for any reason. which is made more likely by, i dunno, an altered/higher center of gravity?
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kickasssoprano
Nov 1, 2011, 2:06 PM
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Thanks for taking the time to share your story- just be aware, the "9 months off ha ha ha" comment kind of irked me- it's great that your wife was able to keep climbing through her pregnancy, but many women (for various reasons) are not. In my case, after a previous pregnancy loss, I just couldn't justify the risk- no matter how small and climbing became a source of stress rather than a fun outlet, like it had been before my loss. My question was specifically about how to safely get back into climbing after taking a substantial amount of time off.
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drivel
Nov 1, 2011, 3:06 PM
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kickasssoprano wrote: Thanks for taking the time to share your story- just be aware, the "9 months off ha ha ha" comment kind of irked me- it's great that your wife was able to keep climbing through her pregnancy, but many women (for various reasons) are not. In my case, after a previous pregnancy loss, I just couldn't justify the risk- no matter how small and climbing became a source of stress rather than a fun outlet, like it had been before my loss. My question was specifically about how to safely get back into climbing after taking a substantial amount of time off.
never been/never gonna be pregnant, but did take 4 months off once due to a back injury.
warm up really slowly and get back into lower grades first. I nearly gave myself another long time out via finger injury when I came back, trying to hop right back on the same kind of problems at the same kind of grades I'd been on before. It hurt my ego, but I made better progress when I dropped a few grades down and worked my way back up slowly. good luck.
... just don't decide that the best way to get back into climbing is to make a mommy group with 4 other families and bring 8 children under 6yo to the crag all together and camp out right under a bunch of climbs and let the older kids make dust storms that i have to breathe while I belay and the little kids pretend to be dogs and yap for 5 minutes straight at 80bpm like a damn metronome. (hellloooo military wall at the red). 'cause that shit is fucking super obnoxious.
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kickasssoprano
Nov 1, 2011, 3:36 PM
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Thanks
I'm due mid January and live in the city (also, I don't have a car) so I don't think I'll be cragging for quite a while post baby- I was thinking gym for now and then once it gets warmer, getting a baby sitter (AKA- baby's grandparents  ) once I'm ready to get back outside. Rock fall on little heads scares the crap out of me...
(This post was edited by kickasssoprano on Nov 1, 2011, 3:39 PM)
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kickasssoprano
Nov 1, 2011, 3:42 PM
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Alicia, you look great! you're tiny for 28 weeks! I just turned 29 weeks and getting up the stairs is beginning to feel like a challenge :(
I'm also in the process of doing an MA and feel like I have zero energy... come on January!!
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clee03m
Nov 1, 2011, 8:14 PM
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drivel wrote: just don't decide that the best way to get back into climbing is to make a mommy group with 4 other families and bring 8 children under 6yo to the crag all together and camp out right under a bunch of climbs and let the older kids make dust storms that i have to breathe while I belay and the little kids pretend to be dogs and yap for 5 minutes straight at 80bpm like a damn metronome. (hellloooo military wall at the red). 'cause that shit is fucking super obnoxious.
Personally, I would be getting a lot less climbing in if I wasn't bringing my son to crags. And I would not be in the shape I am right now. Sounds to me like Soprano's kid's going to be the perfect age to bring to crags when the weather warms up. I am looking forward to hearing about how she is climbing outside with her child. There are thousands of climbs at the Red. If you can't handle kids, may be you should consider climbing in a less kid friendly area. And may be you should take your hostile posts to other forums as folks who frequent here at LR are supportive of parents who bring their children to the crag.
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lena_chita
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Nov 1, 2011, 8:48 PM
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clee03m wrote: drivel wrote: just don't decide that the best way to get back into climbing is to make a mommy group with 4 other families and bring 8 children under 6yo to the crag all together and camp out right under a bunch of climbs and let the older kids make dust storms that i have to breathe while I belay and the little kids pretend to be dogs and yap for 5 minutes straight at 80bpm like a damn metronome. (hellloooo military wall at the red). 'cause that shit is fucking super obnoxious. Personally, I would be getting a lot less climbing in if I wasn't bringing my son to crags. And I would not be in the shape I am right now. Sounds to me like Soprano's kid's going to be the perfect age to bring to crags when the weather warms up. I am looking forward to hearing about how she is climbing outside with her child. There are thousands of climbs at the Red. If you can't handle kids, may be you should consider climbing in a less kid friendly area. And may be you should take your hostile posts to other forums as folks who frequent here at LR are supportive of parents who bring their children to the crag.
clee, don't jump on drivel over this. I think drivel described the situation well, and you should re-read it. I've seen drivel with kids, and trust me, he has no problem with kids at the crag in general.
I am a parent, I know other climbing parents, I occasionally bring my kids with me to climb, I climb with other parents who have kids with them at the crag, and I see other people bringing the kids with them.
There IS such thing as too many kids in one group at one crag. Just like climbers should know better than show up somewhere in a group of 12, spread out their shit, turn on boom-box, and monopolize the crag, the climbing PARENTS should know that bringing 8 kids under the age of 6 to a busy climbing area, and not supervising them well, is a bad idea. Rude, discourteous, stupid, whatever you want to call it.
This has nothing to do with hating kids. I am sorry. This has everything to do with common courtesy and appropriate behavior in a busy public place.
I have well-behaved kids. My friend has well-behaved kids. But when they were all young, bringing 5 of them together for a whole day at a crag would have been an extremely bad idea. For whatever reason, this particular group of 5 nice, well-behaved kids WHEN PUT TOGETHER became really, really loud and required constant redirection, adult-led entertainment and close supervision.
If I, as a parent, chose to disregard this fact because I really, really wanted to climb, other people at the same crag would have had every reason to be upset. And it wouldn't make them kid-haters.
Kids will be kids, spending a day at the crag is not the most entertaining thing for the kids, unless the parents make an extra effort, and saying that everyone else should just deal with it if the parents choose not to supervise their kids is just wrong. If a kid is kicking up dirt and throwing rocks at a belayer, and the parent is doing nothing because kids will be kids, and they like playing in the dirt and digging up rocks-- I'm sorry, but I will be the first one to say that these kids AND their parents don't belong at the crag.
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drivel
Nov 1, 2011, 9:03 PM
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clee03m wrote: drivel wrote: just don't decide that the best way to get back into climbing is to make a mommy group with 4 other families and bring 8 children under 6yo to the crag all together and camp out right under a bunch of climbs and let the older kids make dust storms that i have to breathe while I belay and the little kids pretend to be dogs and yap for 5 minutes straight at 80bpm like a damn metronome. (hellloooo military wall at the red). 'cause that shit is fucking super obnoxious. Personally, I would be getting a lot less climbing in if I wasn't bringing my son to crags. And I would not be in the shape I am right now. Sounds to me like Soprano's kid's going to be the perfect age to bring to crags when the weather warms up. I am looking forward to hearing about how she is climbing outside with her child. There are thousands of climbs at the Red. If you can't handle kids, may be you should consider climbing in a less kid friendly area. And may be you should take your hostile posts to other forums as folks who frequent here at LR are supportive of parents who bring their children to the crag.
i'm pretty psyched that LC jumped in to vouch for me, 'cause well.... not a lot a dude can say around here.
but for what it's worth, I wasn't being hyperbolic. The last time I was at Military wall (the ONLY time I've been to that crag in the last three years because, yes, it's often crowded) there was a single group of climbers that had 8 kids between the ages of 2 and 6. And the older kids were amusing themselves by making dust clouds about 6 feet from where I was belaying, and I had to say something to them after I started coughing, and their mothers gave me horrible dirty looks. And the younger children were pretending to be dogs, wits lots of high-pitched yapping, that I did not say anything about, but it was more annoying than any boom box could possibly have been.
and yes, you have the right to bring your children, or 8 borrowed kids (or heck, 8 of your own kids! viva la pope) to the crag if you want. Each one of the same rights that I have, to think the people who bring 8 little kids to a crag are being monumentally rude to anyone else they might encounter.
Some of my favorite climbing partners have kids. (See LC.) One couple, we've been climbing with since their kids were 8 weeks and 3. But you can bet that when their older kid starts playing dust tornado, mom finds him someplace to play it that doesn't interfere with my breathing while I belay.
(This post was edited by drivel on Nov 1, 2011, 9:04 PM)
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clee03m
Nov 1, 2011, 10:41 PM
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I still think the post was out of place. It did not answer the original poster's question or support her. I have found it hard enough to find willing partners and bring my child climbing and would rather not have to read an unsolicited post describing a family climbing event as 'fucking super obnoxious' in a forum that is supposed to be supportive.
I was at Squamish where a group of parents brought about 6 kids. Another couple had brought 2 kids. I had brought mine. All in all, there were about 10 kids at the base of this cliff. I had a wonderful time climbing and did not think any of us were rude. So I disagree with you that bringing 8 kids in itself means that the parents are somehow rude. Hell, if some parents of 8 kids were out climbing with them, I would be hella impressed. I would love to find 3 other couples who have 2 kids each and go climbing as a family after I have this baby. That would make 8 kids.
That being said, it does sound like the dust storm was inappropriate if it was making you cough. Of course I would like to think that I would not allow my child to do anything like that. Kids pretending to be dogs...really? I guess I would take happy children playing over unhappy screaming kids any day. Or the obnxious beta dude. Or the screaming red pointer. Or dogs putting their dirty paws all over my rope while I am belaying a particularly sketchy climb. I guess that one doesn't seem all that rude to me. C'mon. You were at the Military Wall. It's always a zoo there.
My point is, the original poster is looking forward to climbing in the future because of the hiatus she is taking with her pregnancy. Your post about obnoxious kids added nothing constructive. If someone were to ask, "what can I do to make people not be annoyed at me when I bring kids" or something like that, I think your post may be somewhat more appropriate.
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drivel
Nov 1, 2011, 10:50 PM
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clee03m wrote: I still think the post was out of place. It did not answer the original poster's question or support her. I have found it hard enough to find willing partners and bring my child climbing and would rather not have to read an unsolicited post describing a family climbing event as 'fucking super obnoxious' in a forum that is supposed to be supportive. I was at Squamish where a group of parents brought about 6 kids. Another couple had brought 2 kids. I had brought mine. All in all, there were about 10 kids at the base of this cliff. I had a wonderful time climbing and did not think any of us were rude. So I disagree with you that bringing 8 kids in itself means that the parents are somehow rude. Hell, if some parents of 8 kids were out climbing with them, I would be hella impressed. I would love to find 3 other couples who have 2 kids each and go climbing as a family after I have this baby. That would make 8 kids. That being said, it does sound like the dust storm was inappropriate if it was making you cough. Of course I would like to think that I would not allow my child to do anything like that. Kids pretending to be dogs...really? I guess I would take happy children playing over unhappy screaming kids any day. Or the obnxious beta dude. Or the screaming red pointer. Or dogs putting their dirty paws all over my rope while I am belaying a particularly sketchy climb. I guess that one doesn't seem all that rude to me. C'mon. You were at the Military Wall. It's always a zoo there. My point is, the original poster is looking forward to climbing in the future because of the hiatus she is taking with her pregnancy. Your post about obnoxious kids added nothing constructive. If someone were to ask, "what can I do to make people not be annoyed at me when I bring kids" or something like that, I think your post may be somewhat more appropriate.
um, did you even read the other half of my post? you know, the first half of my post. it's in the same post. here, i'll quote it for you:
In reply to: never been/never gonna be pregnant, but did take 4 months off once due to a back injury. warm up really slowly and get back into lower grades first. I nearly gave myself another long time out via finger injury when I came back, trying to hop right back on the same kind of problems at the same kind of grades I'd been on before. It hurt my ego, but I made better progress when I dropped a few grades down and worked my way back up slowly. good luck.
this time, I have have bolded the particular areas that were supposed to be advice after a hiatus and supportive, respectfully.
i'm sorry you found that totally worthless the first time.
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drivel
Nov 1, 2011, 11:26 PM
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clee03m wrote: That being said, it does sound like the dust storm was inappropriate if it was making you cough. Of course I would like to think that I would not allow my child to do anything like that. Kids pretending to be dogs...really? I guess I would take happy children playing over unhappy screaming kids any day. Or the obnxious beta dude. Or the screaming red pointer. Or dogs putting their dirty paws all over my rope while I am belaying a particularly sketchy climb. I guess that one doesn't seem all that rude to me. C'mon. You were at the Military Wall. It's always a zoo there.
this is a separate post because it's a separate issue, although it was initially a throwaway aside in a post that was otherwise about taking it easy when you're coming back from taking time off, because your fingers wont have retained as much strength as, say, your shoulders....
I mean this in the nicest possible way, really I do, but there's no need to "like to think that [you] would not allow [your] child to do anything like that." The solution is not not just let your child do shit like that.
The dust storm did not magically tip over into obnoxious because I started coughing, it was obnoxious from the beginning because it was too close to a belayer. And here's the thing: little kids, especially boys (pretty sure I remember you saying your first is a boy) really like making dust storms if the ground is dusty. It's a thing kids do. It's not an inherently bad thing. It's kind of charming, if you don't have to breathe it. But under overhanging rock climbs, the ground is dusty, but also usually or often full of climbers and belayers, and watching out for your kids... is not really their job. (it's also usually equally dusty underneath rock that's too unfeatured or chossy to contain bolted climbs. These caves are a far better place for dust storms.)
The thing about kids at the crag, is little kids are not really all that capable of being considerate for themselves. It's something they acquire as they get older, but when they're small, if you want to take them climbing, it is YOUR job to police where they are making their dust storms, and stick forests, whatever, so that nobody has to breathe it, or trip over it, or whatever. Unless you're, like, totally fine with pissing off anyone who is climbing near you because they were already there when you arrived with your troupe.
And if you're all "fuck the world, my kids have a RIGHT to EXPRESS THEMSELVES ALL OVER THE CRAG," don't be surprised with the *only* people who will climb with you are also other pariahs with obnoxious kids. You do have the right to let your kids do whatthefuckever. And other people have the right to choose who they climb with and near.
Because if you're just all laissez faire with it, and wait until people complain to do something about your kids' shit, I promise you will have already been put in the category of "fucking super obnoxious" in their heads long before anybody says anything to you or your kids about something that's bothering them. Because correcting somebody else's kids is not my place. That's their parents' place. But if their parents don't do it.... distraction and stress levels through the roof!
And the pretending to be a dog thing... I mean, you can think it's funny if you want. But little kids barking is just as fucking super obnoxious as actual dogs barking, if not more, because kids are more rational than dogs, and if the parents had said something the kids, I'm sure they could have gotten them to stop, or taken them farther away. And here's the thing: even if the kids didn't stop, the parents intervening to say something would have done a lot to ameliorate my simmering resentment. Effort and intention matter.
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granite_grrl
Nov 2, 2011, 2:10 AM
Post #21 of 44
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Registered: Oct 25, 2002
Posts: 15084
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Hey kickass, as was said take your time getting back to climbing. You'll have to accept that you're not climbing at the same level that you were before the baby, also accept that with your time constraints with the new little one might make it even slower, but if you want it then you'll get back to the levels you used to be at and probably even stronger. Just don't stress it right now.
And Drivel brings up an important (though controversial) point. Getting your climbing in now that you have a kid. I love to hear about parent's that are making their climbing happen, but at the same time I really don't like kids and usually don't want them at the crag with me. You can't turn back time and expect the same sort of climbing day you used to have when you're bringing kids out. They irritate other people at the crag and your primary job is going to be (or at least should be) mitigating this irritation and keep the kids entertained which will mean a compromised day of climbing for yourself.
(This post was edited by granite_grrl on Nov 2, 2011, 12:48 PM)
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kickasssoprano
Nov 2, 2011, 3:56 PM
Post #22 of 44
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Registered: May 16, 2010
Posts: 53
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Thanks for the advice :)
Unfortunately, climbing now is not an option for me. I'm almost 30 weeks pregnant and in the middle of an MA. Also, I don't think I'd enjoy it as i think i'd be too nervous about potential damage to the baby (see my other posts). Pregnancy exhaustion coupled with the demands of full time graduate school and my duties as a teaching assistant doesn't leave much time or energy for climbing. I'll get back into it slowly- bring my baby when I can and climb without baby when I can. Since I'm due in January, I don't think I'll be doing any outdoor climbing for quite a while.
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caughtinside
Nov 2, 2011, 4:07 PM
Post #23 of 44
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Registered: Jan 8, 2003
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clee03m wrote: I was at Squamish where a group of parents brought about 6 kids. Another couple had brought 2 kids. I had brought mine. All in all, there were about 10 kids at the base of this cliff. I had a wonderful time climbing and did not think any of us were rude. So I disagree with you that bringing 8 kids in itself means that the parents are somehow rude.
Yeah... you're wrong. 9 kids at the crag? What a nightmare. way rude.
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lena_chita
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Nov 2, 2011, 4:45 PM
Post #24 of 44
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Registered: Jun 27, 2006
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clee03m wrote: I was at Squamish where a group of parents brought about 6 kids. Another couple had brought 2 kids. I had brought mine. All in all, there were about 10 kids at the base of this cliff. I had a wonderful time climbing and did not think any of us were rude. So I disagree with you that bringing 8 kids in itself means that the parents are somehow rude. Hell, if some parents of 8 kids were out climbing with them, I would be hella impressed. I would love to find 3 other couples who have 2 kids each and go climbing as a family after I have this baby. That would make 8 kids.
It all depends on a situation.
Scenario 1: 16 people in a group (age doesn't matter, mixed bag some are kids, some are adults, some are climbers, some are not), stuff spread out all over, 6 ropes hanging, nobody else is there. It is ONLY this one group. If they are having fun, everything is great, and nobody is disturbed or upset. Heck, if they want to hang 16 ropes and have the kid's birthday party in the cave, and celebrate it by making music with home-made bazookas, and dressing up in animal costumes, and running around barking, who cares.
Scenario 2: same 16 people of mixed age, gender and climbing inclination, trying to hang 6 ropes on 6 climbs, their stuff spread all over, in a busy crag with 8-12 other people who came in groups of 2-4. All of a sudden, it is BAD, even without birthdays, bazookas, boomboxes, and barking kids.
There is a reason why most climbing areas that have any sort of policy on these matters have some rule that limits the size of a climbing group.
For example, since this conversation started with the Red, the Responsible Climbing Guidelines put together by RRGCC years ago (that nobody bothers to read, it seems) specifically suggest limiting the climbing group size to no more than 4-6.
Sure, no one enforces this rule, and it isn't set in stone that 6 in a group is O.K. but 7 is trouble, but really, anytime there is a group that cannot fit into 1-2 cars (and I don't mean an 8-person van=car), that group needs to split up.
But what if I want to hang out with friends? I wanna.... Well, tough luck! I can hang out with friends in the evening after climbing. Or find a climbing place where our 'hanging out' won't be disturbing others.
(so yes, 8 adults + 8 kids-- WAY too big a group to bring to most climbing area where other people would be reasonably expected to be, too). Bouldering would be more forgiving of larger crowd, in many cases, IMO. But there is still such thing as too-big a group.
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camhead
Nov 2, 2011, 5:17 PM
Post #25 of 44
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Registered: Sep 10, 2001
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Regarding kids at the crag, the burden of responsibility is 100% on the parents to make sure that kids do not disturb the experiences of other climbers. If that means limiting numbers of kids in a group, going to another crag without crowds, assigning one parent in a group to be a babysitter at all times, or even leaving the kids home with a babysitter, so be it. This is just basic ethics. The burden to deal with kids is a big fat 0% on other climbers.
And sorry, Clee, I was at the crag with drivel for the aforementioned occasion, and it is completely absurd for you to suggest that we just go to another crag if we didn't like the big romper room group. As I said, the ethical burden is on the parents, and they blew it. We all accept that crowds are inevitable at certain areas, but this in no way excuses badly behaved dogs, litterers, boomboxes, selfish college toprope groups, or parents with rambunctious children.
And just because the Ladies' Room is a supportive environment does not mean that it should serve as a meeting hall to enable and support bad behavior at the crag. Having kids while climbing is hard work, you will have to make sacrifices, and alter the quantity and quality of your climbing trips.
It's your responsibility to figure out how to still get the most out of climbing with kids. Some people (Lena, the rockprodigy family) have figured this out; others (the Military Wall crowd) blow it and make life miserable for all of us; still others just give up, retire, put their climbing gear in the back of their closet behind their road bike, guitar, and dignity, and resign themselves to a life in which work, netflix, weight gain, internet message boards, take-out restaurant food, and mediocrity replace climbing.
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