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fernregan
Jan 19, 2007, 8:30 PM
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Ladies.
Tell me your secrets. I like long multi-pitch climbs. At times, I find myself focusing more on my bursting bladder than on the climbing due to the lack of ledges. Ledges are a god-send. Alas, I am going back to Zion this spring and know I'll encounter 100s of feet of uninterrupted glorious sandstone and long hanging belays.
Tell me pleeze ... how to avoid pee'ing on myself and/or gear while hanging at a belay.
My newest harness (bought in appreciation of T.Skinner) (metolius all-around safety tech) does not have removable leg straps!
Your tutelage is much appreciated.
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macherry
Jan 19, 2007, 11:05 PM
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i really don't think there's any great secret to not peeing. You can train your bladder to hold more by drinking copious amounts of liquids or you can watch your liquid intake. i find i can drink tons of water while climbing on a hot day without having to pee.
as for peeing on gear.....i try to avoid situations like having to go with gear on. I do have removable leg straps on my bd harness which helps out
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acacongua
Jan 19, 2007, 11:30 PM
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http://www.magic-cone.com/animation1.htm
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styleboy
Jan 19, 2007, 11:34 PM
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haha, that one is great. For some reason I have this in my bookmarks...
http://www.pmate.co.uk/demonstration.html
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iamthewallress
Jan 20, 2007, 6:53 AM
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1. Rack on a sling, and hang it on the anchor while you're at the belay so you can rest w/o the weight of the gear. This will put it out of pee range. Likewise, stack the rope on a sling if you're not on a ledge
2. Make sure stuff that you don't want pee on is situated uphill if you're on a ledge, and point your butt the other way.
3. Wait for the wind to die down.
4. Wear quick dry pants. If an unexpected wind soaks you, you'll be really disgusted for a bit, but you'll be dry and will forget about it by the time you finish the next pitch.
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kimgraves
Jan 20, 2007, 6:15 PM
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Hi,
Have you looked at the Lady J product? Can't go wrong for seven bucks. Was it Kitty Calhoun, the great Himalayan climber, who said she could write her name in the snow with this product without pulling her pants down? (Sorry Kitty if I attributed that quote wrong.) Obviously, I'm a man and so have no experience with this product, but it seems to me you could easily pee into a bottle with this. I seem to remember, "practice in the shower" to learn how to use it.
In case you women don't know this, men pee on themselves all the time. In any men's room you'll see wet marks on the front of men's pants. It's just a fact of life. You may have mistaken it for water splash from the sink. It doesn't smell and it dries almost immediately. Synthetic pants dry much faster than cotton.
It's also important to remember that for healthy individuals, urine is sterile as it leaves the body. The cultural squeamishness against it is just that . There are some religious traditions that advocate drinking your own urine for health reasons! We don't do that in our culture but the point is that there is nothing "disgusting" about it. And if you you keep yourself as hydrated as you should, there is very little smell to it.
Holding your pee or not drinking so you don't pee has a lot of disadvantages. A chronically distended bladder can lead to health problems. Being adequately hydrated is critical to athletic performance. When it's cold, keeping your bladder empty keeps you warmer because you're not using calories to heat the water. Any male partner, who's worth having, will graciously turn there back without a comment, if you ask them too. If they don't, find another partner.
That's my rant for the day.
Best, Kim
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nevenneve
Jan 20, 2007, 11:25 PM
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By way of more women taking an interest in wildlife photography and hunting, or for use in similar situations where motion is limited, I think the people who make the sportsmens buddy make one for women. If you would be doing something that did'nt require hauling a pig these are fairly sturdy containers with the required apparatus built in.
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uasunflower
Jan 22, 2007, 12:27 PM
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i rearrenged the leg loops attachments on my harness myself so that they are diagnal, going from but in two opposed directions - just make good knots at gear loops and then in the leg harness loop (i pierced a hole with a knife and streaded/knotted the leg attachment through that). Afterwards train a couple of times in your bathroom to remove your pants w/o removing your harness (inclination matters; better pants w/o fancy closing mechanism). The crux is belaying your partner while peeing in the same time in the wind, to train for that do the same exercice one-handed 
btw not peeing is not only unhealthy but will reduce your performance as hydration is crucial for your muscles to regenerate.
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fernregan
Jan 23, 2007, 10:53 PM
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Your advice is ap-ee-ciated.
I also don't think that holding your pee is the greatest idea; as well as, purposefully dehydrating yourself. Just sounds like trouble. And I'm pretty sure, while pee may be sterile, that there is some sort of acid in it that isn't so great for gear (i.e. nylon or dyneema slings). Any BIO girls out there who knows if this is true?
I am going to re-work the leg loops on my harness (thanks for the x-cross idea) and look into all those contraptions.
I never not want to do something only because I am afraid there won't be a place to pee. Pee stinks.
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amy
Feb 1, 2007, 2:23 AM
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i don't know if this will make you feel any better, but i was in zion last year and found a decent amount of ledges. there were definitely a good amount of crappy hanging belays, but as one who also has to pee a lot, i never found myself in total bladder misery.
also, i have peed a handful of times from a hanging belay. i found if you wear pants that don't have a bunch of buckles/zippers/snaps/whatever (i personally love spandex, even though i look like an 80's flashback sometimes, it's warm and easy to move in) and if only pull the waist of the pants up to below the harness waiststrap it makes them easier to pull down at a hanging belay. brace your feet against the wall, work the pants down just enough (i have to hold the crotch of the pants the whole time, this is where spandex is glorious, since it stretches so much), and you should be okay. yeah, you might make a tiny mess, but for the most part, i've had a decent amount of success. good luck!
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fernregan
Feb 1, 2007, 3:30 PM
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Amy -- Your method for the hanging belay whiz was the specific information I was digging for. Thank you very much.
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iamthewallress
Feb 1, 2007, 5:24 PM
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When peeing on ledges, if you can tie in long enough to basically do the same thing that you for the hanging pee described by amy (i.e. brace your feet into the edge of the ledge and stick your bum out into space against the tension of the rope) and send your pee off the ledge and off route, it's ideal. Some granite ledges get so sticky and nasty that belaying on them on a hot day can be really disgusting. I don't know if sandstone absorbs it far enough away (like kitty litter) that it's a non-factor.
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slockwoo_knits
Feb 12, 2007, 12:20 AM
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Don't do it in Potrero on Space Boyz. The locals hang out at the bottom and have binoculars. I forgot about the binoculars until my white ass was exposed... WHEWWWWWWWWWW!
I usually just make sure am slightly off route. I never take my harness off. I slide my ass through the back of the harness and drop my pants and pee. It isn't a problem.
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photonicgirl
Feb 19, 2007, 4:31 PM
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Peeing. Leave your leg loops on, and wear pants that will fall off easily. Pull them down while wearing your harness and carefully pee into space. Holding your bladder is definitely not healthy for you in the longterm, while drinking lots of water is definitely needed on hot climbs.
Jules
www.adventurouswoman.net
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granite_grrl
Feb 19, 2007, 4:37 PM
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I know that this is supossed to be about peeing on multi-pitch, but I have to share my enjoyment of using a freshette during winter!
It takes a little bit of time to push enough clothes out of the way to actually use it, but it still less time than pulling down 5 million layers and hanging my but out in the cold. Don't even have to take the harness off (my shell pants have a zippered crotch).
Can't wait to take this baby on a multi pitch with me!
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photonicgirl
Feb 19, 2007, 5:05 PM
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Okay, please share, what's a freshette?
I have a "relief zipper" on my wetsuit (off topic) that allows me to stand anywhere and pee like a guy. It's so awesome, we need the same type thing for all our gear, just a zipper or opening on each layer and presto, instant pee!
Oh and as for belayers, I totally agree you have to choose them carefully. I absolutely wont' allow anyone to belay me who I haven't spent a lot of climbing hours with. I have my belayers down to about three or four.
When leading, consider just clipping into your last piece when in doubt of the belay. I'm shocked that the belayer who took his partner off to "check his atc" didn't realize he could just tie a figure eight knot in the rope AFTER asking his partner if she was safe. No need to go off belay, then you stand a chance of incorrectly going back on! Jeeze!
Jules
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photonicgirl
Feb 20, 2007, 4:01 AM
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Oh, cool, I wasn't sure if it was something different. This looks very handy, I've never been one to undo my leg loops...
On the injuries, I have two shoulders, two wrists, and two ankles with problems at age 47. I pee all the time too. :)
I don't climb as strongly as I used to, and leading may be a real problem this summer now with the shoulder injuries because I can't depend on them to hold on anymore. My arms aren't as strong as they were (that really sucks!) because I've tried to baby the shoulders this winter by not lifting, although snowboarding hasn't helped them at all! Falling on shoulders is not physical therapy...
My right ankle finally went while snowboarding so now I have two sad and limited ankles. Left one missing tissue due to injury at age 12. I accept my limitations and continue on. I may have a hard time whitewater paddling this summer, and it's hard to ride my road bike without getting hammered in the wrists, and I suffer greatly snowboarding due to my ankles but you know what? I figure I can easily be down and out that I'm not the tough girl I used to be, or I can be happy and continue to have fun as my middle name.
Granite grrl, I'm still out there doing it. You can go as long as you can go and until they stop you from getting outside and crawling up some rock girlfriend you gonna crawl up that rock even if it means dragging your hind legs. So don't let this injury get you down. You'll become who you are meant to be and you'll always have sympathy for those who can do less.
My own 89 year old mom can barely walk to the bathroom, she's bene overweight for fifty years and uses oxygen. She has never pedaled a bike, climbed a cliff, skied, snowboarded, skateboarded, ridden a motorcycle or otherwise enjoyed adrenaline, yet she has always defended my right to do so.
I think of her now while I'm out there suffering some small injury, my back hurting my neck my shoulders aching till I can't sleep at night. I think of dear old mom and I'm grateful that I can still touch the ground with my palms and I can still climb a cliff ride a bike snowboard ski do yoga and paddle.
You can and will too, in time, after you heal up some more. We are the lucky ones you know.
Peace,
Jules
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fernregan
Mar 27, 2007, 8:59 PM
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Well, here I am in Zion on a rest day. I bought "The Whiz" http://www.whizproducts.co.uk/en/
in preparation for pee'ing on Touchstone and Spaceshot. I tried it out on a hike and ended up pee'ing all over myself... I brought it up Touchstone anyway, but truthfully it stayed in my pack. The techniques mentioned above worked better. I'm still a fan of ledges. The only thing I worry about now is tourists with binoculars.
For pics of our ascent see: www.cruisethecontinent.blogspot.com
(This post was edited by fernregan on Mar 27, 2007, 9:01 PM)
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granite_grrl
Mar 28, 2007, 11:43 AM
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fernregan wrote: Well, here I am in Zion on a rest day. I bought "The Whiz" http://www.whizproducts.co.uk/en/ in preparation for pee'ing on Touchstone and Spaceshot. I tried it out on a hike and ended up pee'ing all over myself... I brought it up Touchstone anyway, but truthfully it stayed in my pack. The techniques mentioned above worked better. I'm still a fan of ledges. The only thing I worry about now is tourists with binoculars. For pics of our ascent see: www.cruisethecontinent.blogspot.com
Doesn't look like it'll hold much fluid before it'll over flow, was that your problem, or just the angle that you were holding it at?
The Freshette looks like it has a deeper initial funnel, so there's some room for angle errors.
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gumbelina
Apr 17, 2007, 2:04 PM
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I really recommend that you check out the Freshette over the Lady J; I had problems with spillage using the Lady J that I have not experienced in the 5 years that I have been using the Freshette. I have not personally used the Whiz, looking at it though the funnel looks a little small, and it says the whole thing is soft? I really snug the funnel up against myself to prevent any possibility of leakage, and a soft funnel might prevent that. A slightly backwards angle won't make the Freshette leak as long as you hold it in place firmly and lean forward to drain the last bit out before removing it.
I would highly recommend that you try out your funnel in the bathtub the first couple of times, then at the toilet a few more times until you're comfortable with it. Baby wipes are very useful for getting pits & bits fresh, or face wipes w/o alcohol or other irritating stuff can be used face, pits, then bits- I use Olay wipes for sensitive skin and really like how they work.
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granite_grrl
Apr 17, 2007, 2:25 PM
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Okay, I was at the drug store yesterday and I spied a container for peeing in for ladies if you had to be bedridden. I know that my hubby likes to keep a bottle in the tent that he can releive himself into on those cold nights when you don't want to go outside, but its never been very practicle for me (at best I've used a widemouth nalgene, where you still have the get out of your covers and squat...I've never been comfortable with this, worried of making a mess).
It looks like this thing is designed so you can pee into it while laying down....I'm just imagining the possibilities!
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