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katydid
May 2, 2003, 7:23 PM
Post #26 of 34
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Registered: Aug 13, 2002
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Farmgirl, enigma, your debate's getting to be off-topic. Take it to PM's, please, if you want to argue.
Thanks.
k.
Edit: I find it rather ironic that this argument broke out in a thread entitled "friendships with other women...." :P
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leahmeryl
May 2, 2003, 7:37 PM
Post #27 of 34
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Registered: Nov 27, 2002
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I have many women friends outside of climbing, but only a handful who do climb.
Climbing is an intimidating sport to pick up in that it requires strength and skills that have to be developed over time. But it's also intimidating to pick up (as a woman at least) because other women are so hard to approach. The very first day I went climbing, several guys offered me help without even being asked but not a single girl did. In fact, most of the climbing girls I talk to and climb with are girls that I initially approached and asked for advice on a problem. (While guy's advice is usually helpful, I get more out of what women suggest because of our smaller size and different skills).
I find a lot of the women intimidating, but then again they probably think the same of me. With one exception every woman I've started a conversation with has been truckloads of cool. Maybe if we all eased up a little and let down our defenses more women would climb.
(By the way, just because I'm equally comfortable in Prada as I am in Prana doesn't make me high maintenance or prissy - it's not like I'm wearring stilettos while I climb)
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enigma
May 2, 2003, 7:53 PM
Post #28 of 34
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Registered: May 19, 2002
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In reply to: I have many women friends outside of climbing, but only a handful who do climb. Climbing is an intimidating sport to pick up in that it requires strength and skills that have to be developed over time. But it's also intimidating to pick up (as a woman at least) because other women are so hard to approach. The very first day I went climbing, several guys offered me help without even being asked but not a single girl did. In fact, most of the climbing girls I talk to and climb with are girls that I initially approached and asked for advice on a problem. (While guy's advice is usually helpful, I get more out of what women suggest because of our smaller size and different skills). I find a lot of the women intimidating, but then again they probably think the same of me. With one exception every woman I've started a conversation with has been truckloads of cool. Maybe if we all eased up a little and let down our defenses more women would climb. (By the way, just because I'm equally comfortable in Prada as I am in Prana doesn't make me high maintenance or prissy - it's not like I'm wearring stilettos while I climb)
There are truly great women out there to climb with and much can be learned if you find them climbing.
I was lucky during my last climbing expedition, I ran into a women leading the" flake"a difficult chimney climb and asked for some beta. Another women I climbed with lead a climb with me, I can't tell you enough times how helpful and supportive she was.
Additionally a third women invited me to climb at the end of my trip , some hard 11's but I declined because by then I was tired.But again she talked to me for a while, and was generous with information,and wanted to climb with other women as well.
My way would be just go up and introduce yourself, if you see her climbing then watch, and wait for her to stop climbing and ask afterwards.
I do admit that some women are not as open , especially if their climbing with their boyfriends or husbands. For those ladies, I just let it be, there are plenty of other positive women out there, and much can be learned. :roll:
In Smith rock, there was a group of women, that met once a week to climb and lead together and was extremely popular. I only wish there was something similar out here.
Anyone want to get a gathering of women together for a climbing/leading day????
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jaylaka
May 2, 2003, 11:03 PM
Post #29 of 34
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Registered: May 1, 2003
Posts: 382
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In reply to: Hi Jen! I'm close (well 3 1/2 from the lake) so if you're heading that way let me know! I think a couple of us girls are heading up May 17...maybe. I'll let you know if we do. I love it up there and I'm having a hard time at work right now. Last week at this time I was climbing on college wall and now I'm sitting up high, but in an office building. Stephanie
hi stephanie! :D
i live in janesville, so you pass right by me on your way to the lake. i'm heading out there for the first time this year on sunday, and i'm crossing my fingers that the weather cooperates.
i'll be camping up there the night of the 10th, and climbing early on the 11th. (since that's mother's day, i've got to get back to see my son and my mom too).
so, long story short, i probably won't make it on the 17th. BUT i am free from june on. (i teach, so the summers are mine, damn it!) :D
where do you climb at in chicago?
so this is getting off topic and i should have pm'ed you. take care and we'll have to keep in touch.
jen
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climbingbetty22
May 4, 2003, 6:38 AM
Post #30 of 34
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Registered: Dec 29, 2002
Posts: 1538
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Thanks for all you're advice and input ladies, it was really insightful. I guess what I really want is, well, the Holy Grail in climbing...a reliable, safe partner, who I jive well with. Really, gender it not an issue, but sometimes climbing with the ladies in a refreshing change from the dudes. Less ego-driven mania.
I kind of look at it this way. I use to be totally "one of the guys" and I loved it, but at the same time the over-emphasis of my masculine traits just wasn't healthy, I wasn't in balance. And while I'm not prissy, I still take pride in my appearance. I am a woman, and to deny that fact by acting like one of the guys all the time just messes up the balance. I'll qualify this by saying that I refer to my personal balance, not to where that lies or should lie for anyone else. I believe that women's rights advance when women can be true to themselves; when they have to act like men in order to get anywhere, I think its a sad perversion of humanist ideals.
That being said, what does it mean to be a woman climber? Not a female climber, but to bring the positive feminine attributes to the climbing culture. To bring our intuitive style of leadership to the rocks? I'm interested in finding other women to climb with, if for no other reason to see how they answer this question and manifest it themselves? I don't want to be another one of the guys, aren't there enough already? I want to be a woman who climbs. I would love to find an older woman to be sort of like a mentor. Maybe she teaches me technical climbing skills, but more I just want to see her model womanly grace on the rock. I want to develop in this area so one day I can mentor other young women climbers.
One thing I know for sure, is that of the whole two or three women I've climbed with, I have greatly enjoyed the experience. No posturing, no pretending, just climbing. And good conversation. Realistic and sane conversations about struggles with men and relationships with others in general. Not to mention, I just like the idea of women taking charge in climbing, not as in climbing hard, sick routes, but I see very few women who are compotent in anchor building, rope management and other key climbing skills. If they do know these things there seems to be either a pervasive lack of confidence, or in a few, a disgusting arrogance. Again a lack of balance.
So, how about it, how do we remedy this? Does it even need remedied? What do you guys think? :?:
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mwbtle
May 5, 2003, 6:06 PM
Post #31 of 34
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Registered: Nov 22, 2002
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Wow, nicely put.
Since my partner injured himself, I'm trying to start climbing more with girls. Now my main partner is female, and its a great thing. We climbed last week, and for once I left the gym (too late for real rock) feeling good about what I had climbed. She's at a higher level than I am, but it was supportive, and nice, and I climbed like a girl instead of trying to muscle my way up the climbs, which I do when I climb with my boyfriend.
I'm really new, so I can't pretend to have the skills or confidence level you say is lacking in a lot of women, but I've learned everything I know about climbing from women. And I think that is the remedy...getting girls out there and teaching them how to do things and that they can climb and how to be in control at the crags...
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grigriese
May 5, 2003, 7:08 PM
Post #32 of 34
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Registered: Jul 15, 2002
Posts: 292
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I've climbed with both men and women and find them to be really not so different. Maybe it's just the people I've climbed with. Their either motivated, or not. Strong, or not. Encouraging, or not. Mellow, or not. Having fun, or not. Gender doesn't seem to play a part. I tend to chose partners based on how much fun it will be to climb with them and if they will be encouraging. One of my favorite partners is a guy, super mellow, encouraging, motivated and just easy to hang out with. And the nastiest person I've ever come across was a woman. She was horrible! Not just unfriendly but one of those persons that made the most unjustified nastiest comments out loud, you know the kind of remarks that usually stay in your head! I giggled inside when my friend and I both pulled off the starting move of a route on our first try that she never did do. Ha ha. I think ever persons situation/area is unique regarding this topic.
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winter
May 5, 2003, 7:11 PM
Post #33 of 34
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Registered: Apr 9, 2003
Posts: 2961
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I agree with climbingbetty that sometimes women lose who they are in an effort to be "cool" and one of the guys. I mean, lets face it, we are girls and will ahve some girly things about us. Some girls are more girly than others, but I just think that's who they are, and not a reason to not like them. I freely admit that I get along better with girls who are less girly, but not because I have anything against being one way or another, it's more an interest thing.
I find that women who try too hard to be like men end up in a limbo place;they are neither women or men, but someone who doesn't really know who they are. I've found myself trying to do this, and feeling angry at myself for exhibiting "female" traits like crying or caring about something or not feeling like doing a climb, whatever. I am trying now to accept that some of these thigns are part of being a woman and I should just roll with it instead of trying to emmulate the guys around me. I think there is a distinct diference between girls who do boy type stuff (whatever that is) and girls who try to act like men by denying who they really are or what they are really feeling.
In climbing, I know that because I am a girl I don't ahve the drive to the harder routes like the guys do. I want to climb well and hard, for sure, but I couldn't care less if I can clean an 11 first try, it just doesn't matter to me. I'm all about the fun of being outside and I think that some men miss that in the quest to be the hardest, stongest, ect. Maybe that's why women patners can be nice sometimes, they are all about the day outside, not the hardest route they can do.
I like dressing up like a girl, I fully am as comfortable in a fancy dress as I am on the crag. I like that duality, I think it's ok. I think that it's ok to wear high heels when you're not climbing, I think it's nice.
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climbs4fun
Moderator
May 9, 2003, 9:52 PM
Post #34 of 34
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Registered: Mar 19, 2003
Posts: 9679
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Either I'm extremely naive or extremely lucky, but all the women I've met climbing - either inside or out - have been very nice and very helpful. Most of my climbing partners however, are men just because the few women I climb with all have very different schedules. When we do manage to get a girls day going, they are fabulous days. So if any of you girls are in the Vegas area and want to climb, let me know. The more the merrier.
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