|
sharmagod
Aug 19, 2002, 12:39 AM
Post #1 of 22
(3065 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 19, 2002
Posts: 535
|
I just found out yesterday as I was going to post my route info. for the routes that I did yesterday.You have redpoint,onsight,flash,hangdog and Top Rope.I onsighted the routes yesterday but do I just put down Top Rope cause thats what I was doing???Seems as if you put this down you have climbed at a lower level or something.I know that it is not as high a level as sport but I still onsighted it.Top Rope isn't worthy to call an "Onsight" even if you did???
I don't understand so any info. on the subject would be appreciated.
Jason
[ This Message was edited by: sharmagod on 2002-08-18 17:49 ]
|
|
|
|
|
jbone
Aug 19, 2002, 12:44 AM
Post #2 of 22
(3065 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 30, 2002
Posts: 463
|
Dude,
Toperopin ain't Onsighting.
You are redpointing the routes after working them on toprope if you may have tried them before on toprope as well.
You could Flash a route on Toprope but that too is not Onsighting. Above all you could Onsight Solo a route. That's Cherry>>
Good Luck
JBone
|
|
|
|
|
jmlangford
Aug 19, 2002, 12:46 AM
Post #3 of 22
(3065 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 2, 2001
Posts: 1569
|
I would just put it under flash and in comments say that you followed or top-roped, etc.
|
|
|
|
|
sharmagod
Aug 19, 2002, 12:50 AM
Post #4 of 22
(3065 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 19, 2002
Posts: 535
|
Thanks....sounds good to me.
Jason
|
|
|
|
|
clymber
Aug 19, 2002, 1:36 AM
Post #5 of 22
(3065 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 8, 2002
Posts: 1259
|
Why cant you onsite a TR...suppsose they have anchor on top and there is no way to trad it nor is there any bolts..Why cant a TR be a onsite...If you never say the problem before or had any beta and didnot fall to me its a onsite..just because it wasnt lead someway shouldnt take away from the fact you did it with no beta...just my view.
|
|
|
|
|
jmlangford
Aug 19, 2002, 2:09 AM
Post #6 of 22
(3065 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 2, 2001
Posts: 1569
|
Makes sense to me clymber.
|
|
|
|
|
clymber
Aug 19, 2002, 2:11 AM
Post #7 of 22
(3065 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 8, 2002
Posts: 1259
|
jbone if you ever look at this posting again i have a question for you
Can a aid climber onsite a route? Yes hes leading but its not really trad or sport sure i will get some good responses from aid climbers but i know nothing about it so forgive me
|
|
|
|
|
jbone
Aug 19, 2002, 2:12 AM
Post #8 of 22
(3065 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 30, 2002
Posts: 463
|
Think of it as Climbing Above your Protection.
On a Toprope this is not Possible. Once you climb past the ancors you are essentially on Lead..
You would have to Solo-Onsight the Traditional Toprope problem if you are seeking the Onsight.. Get it??..
J-Bone
|
|
|
|
|
jbone
Aug 19, 2002, 2:15 AM
Post #9 of 22
(3065 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 30, 2002
Posts: 463
|
I suppose if you are on an Aid climb and you climb above your last piece at any point then you could claim the Onsight although be carefull to express that it was done in aid style, using the Flash as a description may be more appropriate though..
Now if an Aid Climb is Freed then that would mean that it was climbed without the weighting of any protection, while climbing above your gear..
Good Luck
J-Bone
[ This Message was edited by: jbone on 2002-08-18 19:17 ]
|
|
|
|
|
clymber
Aug 19, 2002, 2:15 AM
Post #10 of 22
(3065 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 8, 2002
Posts: 1259
|
Can a boulderer onsite a problem
According to jbone he cant since they havent used any pro or climbed above the last piece of gear..
sharmagod so in jbones eyes to make it a onsite the next time you want to "ONSITE" a TR problem climb above the biners that you have your rope thru that way you have climbed above you last piece of pra
jbone and NO i still DO NOT GET IT
|
|
|
|
|
rush
Aug 19, 2002, 2:21 AM
Post #11 of 22
(3065 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 26, 2002
Posts: 92
|
Onsight - n/vb. a clean ascent with no falls, first try, with no prior knowledge of the route.
Says nothing about leading or TRing. I say it's an onsight, just not a lead onsight.
Climb on
|
|
|
|
|
clymber
Aug 19, 2002, 2:21 AM
Post #12 of 22
(3065 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 8, 2002
Posts: 1259
|
Onsight - n/vb. a clean ascent with no falls, first try, with no prior knowledge of the route.
thats from the climbing terms page...
now i may be blind or dumb but nowhere in there is there any mention of it needing to be lead either trad or sport....can someone point out in there where it says that in case i have missed it
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Aug 19, 2002, 2:27 AM
Post #13 of 22
(3065 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
Quote:Onsight - n/vb. a clean ascent with no falls, first try, with no prior knowledge of the route.
Says nothing about leading or TRing
Then it is an incomplete definition. The terms "onsight," "flash," and "redpoint" refer to leading, not toproping. If you want to annoy a lead climber, tell him that you "onsighted" or "redpointed" a route when you TRed it.
-Jay
|
|
|
|
|
clymber
Aug 19, 2002, 2:30 AM
Post #14 of 22
(3065 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 8, 2002
Posts: 1259
|
well I lead trad,sport boulder and TR... If i get a problem with no knowledge i dont care if i didit butt ass naked with high heels on it isstill a ONSITE
|
|
|
|
|
calamity_chk
Aug 19, 2002, 2:35 AM
Post #15 of 22
(3065 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 23, 2002
Posts: 7994
|
Got these from
The Climbing Dictionary .. to me, it seems that you have to be leading to get any real "points" for it .. but that's just the view of an amateur, and is totally based on the following definitions ..
Flash, to
To lead a climb with no falls or dogging and with no previous attempts on the climb. Two variations exist: the onsight flash (where the climber has never seen the climb before) and the beta flash (where the climber has studied the climb before or has seen someone do the climb).
Redpoint
To lead a climb without falling or dogging after a number of attempts. This is different from onsight, where the climb is lead without falling or dogging on its first attempt.
*However, this disclaimer is also noted near the definitions .. "Terms related the style of ascent ('Flash', 'Redpoint', etc.) tend to be subject to different interpretations."*
I say, label it as you wish but be prepared to defend your stance if the label includes onsight or flash.
And, regardless of what you decide to call it, Congrats on the Ascent ! !
[ This Message was edited by: clymbr_chk on 2002-08-18 19:44 ]
|
|
|
|
|
jbone
Aug 19, 2002, 2:44 AM
Post #16 of 22
(3065 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 30, 2002
Posts: 463
|
Sounds like there needs to be a Revision to the Definition.
Don't want anyone getting laughed at now do we?
J-Bone
|
|
|
|
|
climbinganne
Aug 19, 2002, 2:46 AM
Post #17 of 22
(3065 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 15, 2002
Posts: 11679
|
lew...naked with high heels...i'd pay to see that!!!!
|
|
|
|
|
apollodorus
Aug 19, 2002, 2:48 AM
Post #18 of 22
(3065 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 18, 2002
Posts: 2157
|
The term "onsight" necessarily means that you led the pitch and faced the Big Whipper. Onsight also means you placed pro on lead; if you preplace your gear on aid or rap, it's a redpoint.
There should be a new term, "topflash", to indicate that you flashed the route on toprope.
|
|
|
|
|
bigwalling
Aug 19, 2002, 3:10 AM
Post #19 of 22
(3065 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 29, 2001
Posts: 728
|
Or just put under comments "flashed on toprope".
|
|
|
|
|
pbjosh
Aug 19, 2002, 3:56 AM
Post #20 of 22
(3065 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 22, 2002
Posts: 1518
|
I agree that you should append a TR "onsight" with the mention that it was on toprope... you still climbed it with no prior knowledge or attempts but it was not a true "onsight."
Onsighting and repointing involve facing the consequences of a fall, be it from a boulder or onto a bolt or a ground fall or onto a cam or whatever. Additionally, the added mental and physical stress of placing gear and climbing above your gear facing the whip make a problem much harder sometimes.
One minor amendment to what apollodorus said - preplaced gear or draws is technically a pinkpoint, a clean lead (but not flash, ie you've been on the route before in one way or another) where you place all your gear (draws or pro or whatever) is a redpoint. Any preplaced gear is a pinkpoint, FWIW.
..josh
|
|
|
|
|
sharmagod
Aug 19, 2002, 4:22 PM
Post #21 of 22
(3065 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 19, 2002
Posts: 535
|
Clymber....
Quote:
sharmagod so in jbones eyes to make it a onsite the next time you want to "ONSITE" a TR problem climb above the biners that you have your rope thru that way you have climbed above you last piece of pra
Will do.
Rush....
Quote:
Onsight - n/vb. a clean ascent with no falls, first try, with no prior knowledge of the route.
Says nothing about leading or TRing. I say it's an onsight, just not a lead onsight.
Thats what I say.I would have no problems telling people it was an Onsight on TR.Obviously its not as easy when doing Sport or Trad.
Amber....
Quote:
And, regardless of what you decide to call it, Congrats on the Ascent !!
Thanks!!!
Jason
|
|
|
|
|
transse
Aug 19, 2002, 5:03 PM
Post #22 of 22
(3065 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 10, 2002
Posts: 67
|
Not that it really matters in the big picture but TR doesn't count for much. Style is all climbing has to distinguish ascents. You have to remember during an onsite sometimes arranging protection is harder than the actual climb. Setting a TR takes this aspect out, disqualifing it as a onsite. The example I think of is say a route that has a R/X or X rating, you may do it without falling the first time on toprope, but you are no where near onsiting this climb, but in the end who really cares.
Jake
|
|
|
|
|
|
