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greatgarbanzo
Jan 7, 2002, 5:12 PM
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Registered: Oct 13, 2001
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I am receiving very little help (next to none) from the members of Venezuela because they dont speak english well enough...
I think that is necesary to translate all the words that have not been translated yet... things like...
"Have you read the forum posting rules?"
"Recently added/modified areas"
"top rated users from Venezuela"
All of the photo title descriptions
"Add New Climbing Area (Indoor and Outdoor)"
"READ THIS FIRST!!
A climbing area is unusally an indoor climbing faclity, National Park, canyon, or other small area less than a few kilometers across. If you have to drive to another part of the area, then split it into two areas. Because mountain ranges can stretch for hundreds or miles, they are usually not Areas but may be used to group several Areas together. Each climbing Area usually consist of one or more "walls" or sections that each contain several routes on each section."
"Add New Gear Retailer or Manufacturer: Search for Existing"
and sooooo much that would be useless to post here....
If MY GUYS dont understand ANY of this, HOW WOULD THEY POST/ADD ANYTHING NEW?
I am more than willing to help with any translation, HELL!!! i would translated all and send it to trevor or anyone who is in charge of that if i only knew who.....
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pianomahnn
Jan 7, 2002, 7:26 PM
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I see what you're saying here. In other words, we kind of need a whole different site for spanish speaking people? Whew, that'd be work.
Or else, perhaps just a spanish version of the route database? I'm sure that could be done, or not. I have some ideas.
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metoliusmunchkin
Jan 7, 2002, 9:42 PM
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This new feature would in fact be quite usefull, mostly for those who do not understand the english language. Although, I must admit, this, what you speak of, would take a lot of work, and could may even prove to be a waste of time, if Spanish speaking users, are already discouraged from rockclimbing.com, and will not use it anyway.
Although, I do in fact agree that a route DataBase only in Spanish would be a great idea, and much less work. To recreate an entire website, solely for a certain population of a different first language, would be tons of work (especially when the entire site, is already based upon the English language). A new Spanish Route DataBase would be a great idea. I strongly believe however that this would take the help of many users to make this dream a reality.
It is nice to see people who really care about this site, and for the good of others, to think up new ideas. Great Job Giancarlo!
-Pat
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greatgarbanzo
Jan 7, 2002, 11:12 PM
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Registered: Oct 13, 2001
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for both above...
NONONONO MAN!!!!
Already exist a "spanish version" of RC.COM!!! If you choose your native language as spanish in your PROFILE then you will see LOTS of things in spanish... but this is a partial translation...
Lots of more things need to be translated in order to make the whole site accesible for spanish speakers...
My guys are sending me the info through e-mail and then I post it... Just because they dont understand how the whole site works. Thats the reason why if you go to Venezuela you will see that I AM THE ONLY ONE POSTING INFORMATION.
I am not saying that we should translate the WHOLE database... too much hard work... I am just saying that we should translate THE POSTING LINKS... thinks like "ADD A NEW REGION" and the explanation of what a REGION is and so on....
Do I am xplaining my self???
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rrrADAM
Jan 7, 2002, 11:25 PM
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You gotta PM the Boss (Trevor) on this 'hermano'.
rrrADAM
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metoliusmunchkin
Jan 8, 2002, 10:22 PM
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Ohhh, I get the idea now! I did not know that a previous version of a spanish rockclimbing.com existed within this site. Excuse me.
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greatgarbanzo
Jan 9, 2002, 12:43 AM
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For Above:
Hey man THANX for the suggestion... The thing is that this translator are NOT case sensitive. All is translated word by word which is not rigth (in spanish everything is writen backwards in comparison with english)... you end up with something just like what you are showing us... a bunch of sentences that really dont make much sense...
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trevor
Anonymous Poster
Jan 19, 2002, 5:51 AM
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Wow, the problem of multi-lingual websites is VERY tough! The biggest issue here is where do you or I draw the line? Can we translate some of the words on the site? Sure! As you know, we do this now. But what about more words? Sure, it's hard and makes the problem a little harder, but sure.
But what about other things? Like FAQs? What happends if we need to change the text of the english version? OK, I can see us keeping that up to date too. But what about all the content too? What good is a website if people can't read any of it?
So fine, you get past all that and now you have a huge website with tons of info that you can't read because some of it's in Spanish, another part is in German, and some more is in Chinese! If non-English speakers are coming to the site and contributing, I don't expect them to write in English. So now all of the South America stuff is in Spanish. So much for having a resource that you can use to get anywhere.
This is such a problem, few websites, if any, have been able to solve this.
So that is the bad news. The good news is I love solving impossible problems! Why else do you think RC.com exists? Who says that RC.com can't set some Internet standards as well as climbing standards!
This next part will be slightly technical in nature. I'm thinking out loud for the programmers and admins out there. We create a table of words and terms. We add a new column for each language that we want to translate to. Instead of saying Photo when we create a photo.php page, we say $Photo. Then we replace $Photo with the proper translated word for Spanish, Chinese, whatever. We go through the entire site and replace these English words with variables. Depending on the speed of the database we may need to dump the database words for each language and create a flat file. But DBs are often faster than filesystems, so that may be slower. Now we have a database, we have a couple of "Editors" that are responsible for each language. They are responsible for logging in and updating the translated words for their language. If the translation is poor, then they can change it. We could even have a multiple editors for each language.
The programmers just have to be aware of all the words in the DB so they can use variables instead of English words whenever they code. It will be tough at first, but couple prove to be very powerful.
As the site grows and we need to add new words or phrases to the database, the programmers simply add the English word and use it in their code. If the word isn't trnaslated yet, then that other language just defaults to the English version. The Editors can periodically check or be notified whenever they have terms that haven't been translated.
The final problem is the general text of the site. There are generic translators out there. So if someone really wanted to climb in Venezuela and the only directions were in Spanish for a certain climb, then we could add a translate text button that would go through and automatically "attempt" to trnslate the language. It would be rough, but it may be enough to get the point across. If we made the link easy enough to use, it may be feasible.
After all, I have fluent Russian and I know enough Spanish to order a Taco Bell, but I'm completely lost when it comes to Swahili, Mandarin, and Navajo!
This is a HUGE undertaking! I've never heard of any website ever doing this and it would be totally revolutionary. But we could make this happen.
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greatgarbanzo
Jan 19, 2002, 6:16 AM
Post #9 of 13
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Registered: Oct 13, 2001
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WOW this idea of yours is REALLY HARD WORK... I will help you all you want... and the idea looks GREAT...
But... The title of my post is not accurate for what I was thinking or trying to explain...
You asked... Where we draw the line?
I just want my guys to be able to post things... I think that translating only the necessary for this to happen will be enough...
Allthough... your idea sounds WAY BETTER... I will support you 180% if you decide to go for it...
either way let me know...
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paintinhaler
Jan 19, 2002, 8:49 AM
Post #10 of 13
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Registered: Dec 12, 2000
Posts: 715
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http://www.freetranslation.com
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lschlack
Jan 23, 2002, 5:08 AM
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Registered: Jan 1, 2002
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The multi lingual idea is indeed a dificult one. I have not seen the spanish version of the site, I will try to give it a view over the weekend if possible.
Using "tokens" as Trevor alluded to is one way to handle the site when it comes to the design elements (specifically text labels). However the data itself becomes the issue. Having a single datasource being used by multiple languages presents an issue.
This will surely require some further investigation, but it seems as though the boss is up to the challenge so I imagine this will get a further look.
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trevor
Anonymous Poster
Jan 24, 2002, 8:41 AM
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You asked for it, now you got it!!!
I added brand new functionality to support several new languages. The first stage is done and now I need help translating the data into Spanish. I will send you the file of what we currently use. Right now you can see the Translation Editor here http://www.rockclimbing.com/site/translate
There you can add new variables (if you're an admin) or edit translations (if you are an Editor for those lanaguages). If you want to see where we have placed the "pointers" you can change your default language in your profile to "admin." Insead of seeing Forums or Foros, you will see $forums. This way you can see if the programmer (me, Vincent, or biff) has used the variable which is translatable, or the English version which is not translatable.
For Website help, I also added Fields for Spanish, French, and German. I will add the ability to edit and view these later on.
Trevor
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timp
Jan 24, 2002, 5:26 PM
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Registered: Jan 10, 2002
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I found the postings here a little confusing - obviously thoughts here are still coming together. Might I suggest the following goals..
1) Setup the 'framework' (ie: all the hardprogrammed headings etc) with variables and over time support more than one language - Spanish probably being the first language to add. When this is ready, the users could then select whichever language they prefer from a list of languages available.
2) For the database / data, encourage users to enter data in whatever language suits them. In Spanish speaking countries this would most often be Spanish. Setup a structure that allows route descriptions in more than one language, so users could be browsing a route and read/edit the Spanish description and then switch to the English version and get the best of both, but each language would be entered separately perhaps by different users.
3) For the route data that is only in one language, provide a link to an autotranslater so it can be somewhat accessible to as many people as possible.
I've seen other sites providing the first goal, and the 2nd and 3rd seem do-able.
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