Forums: Climbing Disciplines: Sport Climbing: Re: [fracture] To retro or not?: Edit Log




jt512


Jun 3, 2007, 1:52 AM

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Registered: Apr 12, 2001
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Re: [fracture] To retro or not?
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fracture wrote:
jt512 wrote:
fracture wrote:
And if dictionaries don't convince you, I don't know why I should expect that usage examples will. You still have not answered my question: what sort of data, if any, would convince you that you are wrong about what this word means (for most native English speakers)? Is there any?

I'd have to hear people in ordinary conversation use the word that way.

I'm assuming that you are including written and online "ordinary conversation" (by the principle of charity; but if I'm wrong, you really need to do some reading before we can discuss this any more times). Some of these are and some are not from actual conversation, but all are informal written text in a conversational tone (e.g., I included some rc.com area or photo descriptions and their comments). (And, again, if you are demanding it come from actual conversation, either spoken or not, rather than just (legitimately) complaining about the fact that those previous examples were all from one type of non-conversational, advertisement-style usage, again, my preemptive response is that you need to do some reading before I'll continue engaging with you in this much detail when you slip into your tendencies toward pseudo-scientific prescriptivism.)

I also omitted referencing posts by me or healyje from earlier in this thread, although it is certainly still valid usage data.

Anyway, here's some samples:

"I'm starting the 3th pitch. 35 mts of pure entertainment. The next pitch is fantastic."

"Goals: The main thing that I object to is the word 'must' in must set goals (especially as related to climbing). For me the word must is ego's playground. It's and [sic] important tool to realize when I'm 'choosing' goals for my entertainment."

"Ahhhhh, the things we do to entertain ourselves on a mosquito-infested, spray-painted, low-ball V3."

"This is a great sport climbing area. Here you can find about 25 different routes to entertain yourself."

"Several variations of these climbs are available and will entertain most people."

"Sounds like you kids use drugs as entertainment.... like climbing. Read a little David Foster Wallace. Better yourselves."

"Three routes to provide a short term fix of entertainment."

"Steve and I needed a little entertainment so we put up this Line. We call it 'Smoky and the Bandits'."

"[..] thinking about who to tote onto that thing for some sketch fest entertainment."

"looks bomber [re picture of old piton]. I would defintiely leave such stuff in the rock, for history and entertainment"

"I need advice on where we could climb and how we could climb. I would love to do some easy multipitch climbs but that is not seeming possible. I will be in the valley for one week. How can I entertain this party?" (You can argue that this one is in the separate sense of entertaining a guest, but I think it is weak, because in context he is clearly not a valley local.)

"Go south and Cochise could entertain you the entire trip. If your in the Phnx area you also may want to check out the Superstitions."

I'd say that (nearly) all of those are using the word "entertain' in a non-literal way, to, in a sense, downplay the experience, almost facetiously. Note that the one about the group visiting the valley is the Healy definition of climbing-as-entertainment turned on its head and applied to trad climbing!

Notapplicable gets it. Going to the crag to watch chicks is entertainment. Going to the crag to work on your climbing, a hobby you take seriously, is not.

Jay


(This post was edited by jt512 on Jun 3, 2007, 1:55 AM)



Edit Log:
Post edited by jt512 () on Jun 3, 2007, 1:55 AM


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