Funny thing is this line of reasoning doesn't hold everywhere. In the Elbe river valley outside of Dresden, Germany many routes have two difficulty grades. The regular grade assumes that you rest on protection between belays and the RP grade assumes you climb without resting between belays.

I doubt anyone who has climbed there would argue that the locals are not 'trad' climbing... regardless of your personal definition. In the local ethic, routes are done ground-up, and redpoint is just a finer distinction of the ascent. Many routes in this area use both fixed and removable protection.


The RP grades are a relatively new addition (70's) brought by outsiders whereas the regular grades (and tactics) have been in use by the local climbers since the 1830's. If that isn't traditional enough for you than what is?