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Re: [guangzhou] Trad climbing, what's in a name?:
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healyje
May 4, 2011, 6:44 AM
Views: 8501
Registered: Aug 22, 2004
Posts: 4204
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guangzhou wrote: I think you’d better look-up the history of routes.
Don't need to, for the most part it isn't 'history' to me that I need to 'look up'.
guangzhou wrote: Don't agree with you here, you either on-sight or red-point a route, trad or sport. Trad does indeed use the red point system.
You can disagree all you like, but there is no such thing as a 'redpoint' in trad - that's because there's no culmination of dogging to work a route in trad, which is what a redpoint is all about.
guangzhou wrote: Working a route on gear is sport climbing on gear is your most consistent argument. One that I don’t agree with.
Again, it doesn't matter if you disagree. You're another cross-over who mistakes sprad climbing for trad just because you're dogging on gear instead of bolts. You're sport climbing on gear is all.
guangzhou wrote: I don’t on-sigth every trad route I climb. Actually, I think trad climbers who don’t get on routes where they fall on the gear they placed are scared of falling on their placement. It’s an excuse for not pushing themselves. Strange, because no one should need an excuse on how or why they climb.
You still seem to be confusing / conflating onsighting, working/dogging a line, and sprad / trad. Also not sure what you think the relationship is between onsighting or not and falling or not in trad is. I certainly fall way more than onsight and personally wouldn't want it any other way or I wouldn't really be climbing anywhere near my limit.
guangzhou wrote: Here is where I don’t agree with you. If you choose to get on a hard route and you fall, then go back and get he route clean, you still climbed trad. On-sigth isn’t what determines whether a routes is trad or sport. ... While I don’t agree with this view, I find it more realistic then you view of on-sigth is the only way a route is trad.
Yet again, it doesn't matter if you agree - trad climbing is what it is regardless of how badly sprad climbers want to redefine it to be what they do. If you fall and rest on the rope and sort things out you aren't trad climbing. And you really are not getting it that onsight or not basically doesn't have anything to do with trad climbing other than being the odd fortuitous occasion.
guangzhou wrote: There is no single fixed piton placement I’ve ever seen that would not have been better off as a bolt. If you’re going to leave a permanently fixed piece of gear, a piton isn’t the best option, might be the fastest and easiest, but never the safest.
I've seen and replaced hundreds of 80's & 90's 5pc bolts on the same cliff where I also checked and reset or replaced hundreds of pins from the 60's & 70's. Ninety percent of the bolts were rotted spinners whereas only about 15% of the much older pins need to be replaced (mostly knifeblades, which were replaced with Bugaboos which hardly corrode at all by comparison). Overall, the much older pins were always safer than the 5pc bolts. With higher quality SS bolts I'd say the balance tips heavily in their favor even around here, but not many folks are putting in SS bolts from what I can tell and here on the west side of the Cascades the non-SS bolts rot nearly as fast as wood.
(This post was edited by healyje on May 4, 2011, 6:45 AM)
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Edit Log:
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Post edited by healyje
() on May 4, 2011, 6:45 AM
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Post edited by healyje
() on May 4, 2011, 6:45 AM
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