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Re: [xtrmecat] Trad climbing, what's in a name?:
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guangzhou
May 6, 2011, 2:26 AM
Views: 8028
Registered: Sep 27, 2004
Posts: 3389
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xtrmecat wrote: guangzhou wrote: I agree, that some bolted routes are trad, I lived and climbed through the development of sport climbing in America too. I learned on cracks and the slabs of Glacier Point Apron. Apron routes are good example of bolted routes I would not consider sport routes. What I am saying is purely focused on the routes that require gear placement. I don't consider any route that require gear placement a sport route. Placing gear means the route is trad. I do agree about wo different conversation. I am writing about the route, a trad route is a trad route, period. I do think you may be missing the point. Routes being trad or sport isn't being discussed. Bolts vs gear isn't the definition of the term either. Style and ethics mean more in defining this oldish term. Lately it is being used loosely to mean a route that may require gear, which is completely out of it's definition. Also, bolts do not make a line nontrad. It isn't a verb either. The whole point of this thread was to better define the term, and to educate some who use it to define a gear battle or sprad climbing. Both incorrect, and not just a little either.
Actually, you're missing the point.
My whole point is that the protection of the route is what defines the sport versus trad route. That is what I am discussing. Spad doesn't exist in my vocabulary yet. This doesn't mean it never will. Language, like the sport of climbing, evolves all the time.
On the language front, in French, routes that are gear protected are called Artif. Meaning the protection is artificial.
Same is true in most of Asia, trad isn't a common term. Sport Climbing in much of Asia refers to what Americans would call Artificial Wall climbing, or gym climbing. Also competition climbing. In many Asian countries, if you're placing gear, you climbing an artificial route.
In reply to: I also needed clarity of origin, history, evolution, and definition. There is a ton of this information in this by a select few posters, with much litter in between. Thanks to those who are genuinely interested in straighteneing out the masses, or at least the two or thirty that may read it. Burly Bob
The origin of the term "sport climbing" went hand in hand with the development of fully bolted routes.
The routes were developed with bolts so climbers could foicus on the pure movement, or gymnastic style, of the route without worrying about the consequences of falling.
Smith Rock was part of the Sport Climbing scene epicenter, maybe even the Epicenter of it in America.
Sport Climbing came after American climbers visited places in France and Germany and decided that that style of climbing would open new terrain here.
In the 80"s, the conversation about sport and trad were volatile, but so were the conversations about moving away from pitons and going to clean climbing style over a decade prior. Clean climbing took awhile to become accepted, just like sport climbing routes took awhile.
To me, the term trad climbing is directly related to the style of protection on the route, not the attitude the route is climbed with.
While sport climbing does lend itself to an attitude of working a route, working a trad protected route doesn't make it a sport climb.
Xtrmecat, this was the major conversation and issues when I was climbing in the 80s. People did feel that dogging a route was cheating, but I don't remember people saying that dogging a route was sport climbing.
Ray Jardine was accused of dogging, Yo Yo actually, he was not accused of sport climbing when he put up the Phoenix. (before my time)
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(This post was edited by guangzhou on May 6, 2011, 3:38 AM)
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Edit Log:
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Post edited by guangzhou
() on May 6, 2011, 2:33 AM
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Post edited by guangzhou
() on May 6, 2011, 3:32 AM
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Post edited by guangzhou
() on May 6, 2011, 3:38 AM
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